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[Music]

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thank you

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[Music]

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good afternoon good morning good evening

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wherever you may be Across the Nation

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around the world I am Leah Prime and

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thank you so much for joining the

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invisible night school for a special

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round table with Dr Massimo teodarani

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for those of you just joining the

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invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of researchers exploring all

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variety of topics including UAP UFOs

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High strangeness in the phenomena you

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can find us at the

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invisiblenightschool.com go ahead and

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like share and subscribe to our Channel

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and join our Discord included in the

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links in the video description

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without any further delay I'd like to

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welcome my co-hosts the brilliant

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Campbell Moreira and the inimitable Luis

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caitano who's joining us in voice only

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mode

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how are both of you how are you doing

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today gentlemen very well thank you

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pretty good thank you

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and how are you

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oh I'm just uh I'm a little pinch of

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heaven I'm super excited for the

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conversation today

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um candidly I I can tell I'm getting old

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because I feel way livelier at two

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o'clock than at our normal nine o'clock

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live stream yeah all right I'm not being

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prepped up with late afternoon coffee

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and ADD medication

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um so I'm ready to roll

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um

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tiodarani's background in BIO quick

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before we welcome him onto the Stream

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so Dr Massimo teodarani is a northern

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Italian astrophysicist he obtained his

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degree in astronomy and PhD in Stellar

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physics at the University of Bologna at

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a research as a researcher at the

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astronomical observatories of

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I I studied Russian and Yiddish not

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Italian um how do I say those bologna

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bologna bologna and Naples and later at

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the inaf radio telescope of medicina he

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was involved in research on explosive

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star phenomena and more recently in the

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search for extrasolar planets and

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extraterrestrial intelligence with the

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city project

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Dr teodarani has addressed the European

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Parliament on the subject of UFOs and

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was the lead science advisor for the

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embla research project in Heston Norway

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in 2021 he became a research affiliate

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of the Galileo project and is a member

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of the scientific Coalition for UAP

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studies also known as SCU

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he's published on quantum physics Atomic

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and nuclear physics astronomy

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astrophysics bioastronomy and physics of

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anomalous atmospheric phenomena human

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consciousness and Aerospace studies so

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without any further Ado Dr Tia dorani

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I'd like to welcome you to the invisible

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night school

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thank you all for having me here

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yes we're delighted you could join us

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um it was wonderful Campbell to make the

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connection I know he particularly has

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been invested in your research and in

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your study of UAP and anomalous

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phenomena so big big props to Cambo for

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uh getting you here today

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I'm uh very excited uh to speak with you

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uh Dr theodorani um maybe we could get

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started with

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um just a little bit of your background

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uh now that you're involved with the

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Galileo project especially and it's

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picking up steam

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um maybe maybe you could talk a little

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bit about how you found yourself in uh

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Norway in 1994 at a conference

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presenting a uh you know series of

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slides that you wrote up on how to use

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an instrumental observation station to

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treat UFOs like a star in the Earth's

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atmosphere you know pretty much what uh

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Dr loves doing now yeah so how did you

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find yourself in that position yeah what

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I have to tell you that after the end of

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my PhD

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[Music]

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I was waiting for uh postal profession

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and it took some months before having

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that and that point

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um

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I felt strangely that I wanted to get

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more in depth in something that I didn't

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consider enough in my life and it was

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about a UFO phenomenon so I was hunting

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for uh books about UFOs and I collected

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something like 5 000 volumes in my

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library

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um in particular one book from a British

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researcher whose name is Jenny randos

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who has some kind of uh I would say a

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scientific preparation and very critical

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thinker I found a book that was on the

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on the desk of a free market outside I

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took the book and the book fell on the

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ground and when it fell it fell opened

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on a page in which it was rich and

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project is darling it was 1993. at that

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point I noticed that some scientists

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like a professor Ireland Strand and also

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others like Professor Annie Roth

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raffledge for instance in Piedmont

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Missouri

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tried an attempt to measure the

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phenomenon normally we know that this

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kind of ramen is based on weakness okay

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but in that case the instruments were

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used so I was very fascinated because

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very quickly having a look at all those

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UFO books I got very bored honestly

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because there were only stories okay

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some also very interesting and this

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doesn't mean that I don't give a value

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to the witness

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I think that in reality the weakness

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might be Central in this kind of

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phenomena the interaction between the

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Observer and the Observer but in that

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case I was interested in what we can do

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what kind of concrete measurements we

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can give and what an astronomer can give

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to this kind of research so I wrote to

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link Strand and uh after one year

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uh participated to congress with all my

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calculations about

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integration times in namely technically

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means exposure times to obtain Optimum

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signals to noise ratio

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data to understand what objectively that

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phenomenon might be seeing them to noise

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ratio is everything in science whatever

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speculation we can have whatever Madness

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of Marvel we can have about a phenomenon

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if we want to try to say this is real we

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have to make sure that the ratio between

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the signal and the noise is very high so

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we have to optimize the data that we are

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going to obtain this is the main goal of

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the Galileo project to obtain good data

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without a preconceived idea on what a

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phenomenon can be and to try to analyze

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that using the scientific methodology

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which is not something like a religion

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okay it's something that

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speaks about the reality in which we

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live so we have to analyze the reality

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in the most

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accurate way as we can not only for us

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as a sort of a big quick Circle of

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Science but also for people if we wanted

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to tell to people that phenomenon is

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real or is false we have to tell how we

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deduce that wanted uh quantitatively uh

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using mathematics both in measurements

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and in

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theoretical modeling okay so a couple of

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nice and I thought oh some people got

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some measurements there

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so I want to see what I can do what can

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do contribution I could give to to this

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group and and then the thing started in

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1994 and it's going on right now and

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even if uh alternate situations okay

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people attacking sometimes uh but mostly

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going ahead and now there is this

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Galileo project which I can affiliate

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researcher and which I'm trying to give

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my contribution I have to say there are

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many uh

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physicist astronomers computer

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scientists engineers who are doing a lot

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of good work above all we have to thank

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Engineers who are now allowing us to

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obtain good data so next years we'll

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tell them how it will go and and so it

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wonderful

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um and can you so one of the things we

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talk about a lot on our show is the

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scientific method and

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um both in its current form and in ways

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it may either fall short or can be uh

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explored or re-evaluated to study uh UAP

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ufology and anomalous phenomena

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um how do you consider the relationship

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between research and the scientific

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well um

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as it was a written also by

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philosophy of science

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anomalies are those alarm bells that

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tells us several things that something

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is not working in our current model

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and at the same time that we probably we

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um

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we have anomalies because in our current

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model we

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disregarded some things that we

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considered not reliable and not

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important or something there are some

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things that are behind the corner that

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we disregarded too much because they

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were not fitting the the standard model

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for instance like the standard model the

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physics in elementary particles so

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anomalies are on an alarm clock to us to

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tell us please

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um

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do some corrections look better at

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reality don't disregard everything

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because something is missing okay so

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it's our duty also ethical duty to

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consider these things and using the

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standard method of uh investigation so

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this method is based on measurements

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because we cannot have theories before

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measurements we can have theories only

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after we have measurements with good

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data namely with a very high signals to

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noise ratio from the data and only from

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the data we can deduce the theory and

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not this aversion so but we can do that

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also on anomalies if we disregard

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anomalies we are dishonest we are

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dishonest against science and we are

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dishonest against ourselves because

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science is not religion it's not

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politics but it's only an um how to say

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uh Endeavor to uh increase our knowledge

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I would prefer to say understanding than

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knowledge because

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the

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knowledge it doesn't mean that we

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understood what what is important to

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understand what's going on so we have to

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be to have the cool range okay it's like

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a railway

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that across the how to say the Siberian

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Forest not far so mean but

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those infinite loans there and we go on

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the right wheel but we don't stop the

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train and go out and see what's there we

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on the railway we think everything is

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linear but there are things that are not

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linear so we have to have the courage to

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face what goes out from our science that

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is perf it's very well set

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methodologically and we know a lot but

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and um just for uh yeah for our um

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viewers uh many are interested in the

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UFO subject and uh the Consciousness

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subject and so um your experience is

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very uh directly relevant to that in

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those two interests uh coming together

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on this uh sub subject

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um when you uh first heard about

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hezdalen and then you spoke to assistant

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professor erling strand

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um you then uh got involved with his

281
00:15:36,889 --> 00:15:32,639
project to put in a sensor station in

282
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,899
hezdala Norway that began in 1998 and I

283
00:15:41,870 --> 00:15:39,120
think it's interesting because this is

284
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:41,880
the kind of thing where observations and

285
00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:46,079
interpretations can really deviate uh

286
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:47,220
from

287
00:15:52,370 --> 00:15:49,380
um you know this the same philosophical

288
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,380
uh model so for example like you in your

289
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:54,000
field studies due to three field studies

290
00:15:59,810 --> 00:15:57,180
like 2000 2001 2002 I believe or is it

291
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,820
uh around there and then you had your

292
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:01,680
public paper published in the Journal of

293
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,500
scientific exploration in 2004. uh you

294
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:06,600
described a bunch of observations of

295
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:09,000
very interesting phenomena and you were

296
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:12,300
not at all firm in saying this is what I

297
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:15,120
saw uh in terms of interpretation the

298
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:16,680
observations were clear your

299
00:16:21,949 --> 00:16:19,500
interpretation was left open and still

300
00:16:24,889 --> 00:16:21,959
your results the observations themselves

301
00:16:27,230 --> 00:16:24,899
they were not accepted I would argue I

302
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:27,240
would say in the mainstream physics

303
00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:30,120
community and so or at least were

304
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:31,980
resisted heavily because they strayed

305
00:16:37,069 --> 00:16:33,660
from the standard of what you would

306
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:37,079
expect to see in Earth's atmosphere and

307
00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:39,720
so in your own lived experience having

308
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:42,180
dedicated yourself really to the subject

309
00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:45,300
uh in practice your whole life would you

310
00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:47,880
be able to speak a little bit about that

311
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:50,279
uh trying to be in that middle point

312
00:16:55,009 --> 00:16:52,079
where you are presenting the

313
00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:55,019
observations uh while still inspiring

314
00:17:00,129 --> 00:16:57,660
people to be intrigued and uh fascinated

315
00:17:02,689 --> 00:17:00,139
by what you're describing

316
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,699
well um

317
00:17:08,110 --> 00:17:04,799
first my duty

318
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:08,120
um first of all we didn't have enough

319
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:12,780
money funding to get a really good data

320
00:17:18,409 --> 00:17:15,600
some of the network would some were not

321
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,419
good compared to what we can have with

322
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:21,120
the project Galileo for instance there

323
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:23,839
were some data that were

324
00:17:33,049 --> 00:17:29,520
difficult to explain and uh like for

325
00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:33,059
instance the interpretation of what

326
00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:35,480
happened to my Norwegian colleagues in

327
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:40,440
1984 when they aimed a laser beam

328
00:17:47,820 --> 00:17:44,100
against one of those pulsing lights and

329
00:17:49,090 --> 00:17:47,830
these lights seemingly were answering

330
00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:49,100
[Music]

331
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,250
uh I cannot interpret that a bit Larry

332
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:01,679
all of this if I were

333
00:18:10,430 --> 00:18:06,080
um I don't know a visual thinker or of

334
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,440
offology and I am I don't want to judge

335
00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:12,240
I mean because there are some apologies

336
00:18:16,430 --> 00:18:15,179
that are excellent okay I know I would

337
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:16,440
say okay

338
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:20,960
this is an answer to our uh

339
00:18:30,049 --> 00:18:26,760
laser stimulation but we don't know if

340
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,059
there are some uh Photon Photon

341
00:18:35,330 --> 00:18:33,360
interactions between laser and plasmas

342
00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:35,340
for instance there are things that we

343
00:18:43,570 --> 00:18:38,660
have to investigate

344
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:43,580
still deeply so I cannot give

345
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:47,600
interpretations I cannot offer some

346
00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:51,360
possibilities that are still open why

347
00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:54,500
because the data are not sufficiently

348
00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:57,240
a big number

349
00:19:04,610 --> 00:19:01,500
and not sufficiently high in quality so

350
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:04,620
I cannot give a definite interpretation

351
00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:06,960
I would be really

352
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:10,980
very dishonest if I if I do that and we

353
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:15,360
would be dishonest science it's not a

354
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:18,900
real that uh mainstream science didn't

355
00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:23,520
accept our words in reality there are

356
00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:25,380
many scientists that are really very

357
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,679
interested in style and like things but

358
00:19:35,870 --> 00:19:31,200
first of all I see that some of these

359
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:35,880
scientists wanted to maybe in good faith

360
00:19:43,070 --> 00:19:40,559
try to take what it's useful to them to

361
00:19:46,130 --> 00:19:43,080
prove their own preconceived theories

362
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:46,140
this is not scientific and this is not

363
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:49,919
honest and so some do that the evening

364
00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:52,860
would face okay even my date I've been

365
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:56,580
used in that way in good faith I'm sure

366
00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:00,240
it was in good faith we are not yet in a

367
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:02,580
condition to say what the phenomenon is

368
00:20:10,010 --> 00:20:05,400
but we are in a condition to say how the

369
00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:10,020
phenomenon behave behaves okay and we

370
00:20:18,409 --> 00:20:14,460
have a good idea about that and but we

371
00:20:21,289 --> 00:20:18,419
can also say I I am fascinated by the

372
00:20:24,430 --> 00:20:21,299
idea of uh other

373
00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:24,440
possible intelligences from somewhere

374
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:27,960
but I can also say that some

375
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:31,140
manifestations can be explained by

376
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,559
Nature phenomenal for instance in in

377
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:35,840
Brazil

378
00:20:44,930 --> 00:20:41,280
in the late 70s and 80s there was a very

379
00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:44,940
strange and weird phenomenon of

380
00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:49,080
so-called UFOs that were emitting beams

381
00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:50,360
of light

382
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:54,299
hitting people or some of whom were

383
00:21:02,690 --> 00:21:00,299
killed or severely wounded well everyone

384
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:02,700
thought and told that wow these are

385
00:21:08,090 --> 00:21:05,220
flying sources that are emitting a death

386
00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:08,100
ray against people and they like to

387
00:21:14,890 --> 00:21:10,280
shoot against people with the death rate

388
00:21:18,909 --> 00:21:14,900
in reality analyzing the the the the

389
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:18,919
situation of a plasma

390
00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:21,179
atmospheric plasma that is rotate

391
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:24,900
anything very fast I mean something like

392
00:21:31,850 --> 00:21:28,799
a 100 kilometers per second and which is

393
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:31,860
flattened and which has a very strong

394
00:21:38,570 --> 00:21:35,220
magnetic field would have two openings

395
00:21:42,529 --> 00:21:38,580
on the poles on North Pole and the South

396
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:42,539
Pole of this flattened plasma which

397
00:21:49,850 --> 00:21:46,159
could emit beams of energy

398
00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:49,860
randomly according to the turbulence of

399
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:52,140
the atmosphere so it could be a natural

400
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:56,400
flow okay so we must be prepared to the

401
00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:00,000
possibility that something of nature we

402
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:01,980
we don't understand everything about

403
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:06,780
nature about situation in nature and we

404
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:12,120
have to be prepared to take into account

405
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:14,400
um every possibility even in the most

406
00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:17,880
disappointing one that could be a

407
00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:20,820
natural phenomenon but something else

408
00:22:26,210 --> 00:22:23,340
could not mean that I'm not in a

409
00:22:29,289 --> 00:22:26,220
condition to tell what it is I'm not in

410
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:29,299
a situation that I I have to

411
00:22:35,210 --> 00:22:33,600
give an interpretation because if I

412
00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:35,220
compare this

413
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:36,020
um

414
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:40,020
I want to say observations using means

415
00:22:48,289 --> 00:22:43,740
and with the observations that we make

416
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:48,299
in astrophysics or in physics I can say

417
00:22:55,789 --> 00:22:51,780
no we have to reach a much higher level

418
00:22:58,909 --> 00:22:55,799
okay before telling this is it or this

419
00:23:01,250 --> 00:22:58,919
is not it so it takes a long time to

420
00:23:06,049 --> 00:23:01,260
make something very well done and with

421
00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:06,059
the Galileo project we thanks to uh

422
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,240
the intelligence and the Enterprise of

423
00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:11,039
Professor evil Lloyd

424
00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:14,580
but also thanks to the

425
00:23:20,210 --> 00:23:17,460
good quantity of money we can have

426
00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:20,220
better instruments okay so thanks to

427
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:22,620
better instruments and competencies that

428
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:25,919
can be collected together we might might

429
00:23:32,470 --> 00:23:30,419
understand a bit more so well this is my

430
00:23:35,149 --> 00:23:32,480
thing

431
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:35,159
can you give us a can you give us an

432
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:37,620
idea of like the energies involved

433
00:23:39,490 --> 00:23:38,940
yes

434
00:23:42,890 --> 00:23:39,500
yeah

435
00:23:48,110 --> 00:23:42,900
oh well there are several

436
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:48,120
um well we measured because we had the

437
00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:52,140
um several ways to evaluate the distance

438
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:53,580
[Music]

439
00:23:59,630 --> 00:23:56,400
um phenomenon which was about for well

440
00:24:02,750 --> 00:23:59,640
remember nine kilometers and then you

441
00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:02,760
measure the apparent Luminosity you've

442
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:05,960
calculate the fact that the

443
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:09,120
electromagnetic waves decrease with the

444
00:24:15,770 --> 00:24:11,760
inverse of the square of the distance

445
00:24:18,350 --> 00:24:15,780
then you make a lot of calculations and

446
00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:18,360
the energy was something like 20

447
00:24:25,789 --> 00:24:22,740
kilowatt so but only at that time at

448
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:25,799
that moment that circumstance in which

449
00:24:32,029 --> 00:24:29,760
we were sufficiently lucky to have a

450
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:32,039
measurement of distance and the

451
00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:34,440
measurement of the apparent Luminosity

452
00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:38,280
it was obtained it was with 20 kilowatts

453
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:39,840
but

454
00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:44,460
um other scientists even if not

455
00:24:48,529 --> 00:24:45,320
um

456
00:24:53,270 --> 00:24:48,539
deducing their calculations on

457
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:53,280
measurements but only on Witnesses and I

458
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:55,260
mean

459
00:25:00,669 --> 00:24:59,280
physicist like Jacques Valley Bruce

460
00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:00,679
Maccabee

461
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:06,020
Professor early Rutledge they deduced an

462
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:09,600
energies that were at least a fact a

463
00:25:18,049 --> 00:25:14,159
factor 10 or even five I don't know even

464
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:18,059
in 50 or 100 more than what we measure

465
00:25:22,669 --> 00:25:20,640
in s dollar consider that in this

466
00:25:26,029 --> 00:25:22,679
darling we have not a standard the

467
00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:26,039
phenomenon but we have a series of

468
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:28,500
different phenomena the first strange

469
00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:32,760
reason they coexist there I measure 20

470
00:25:40,029 --> 00:25:35,640
kilowatt others measured some not

471
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:40,039
deduced they you can calculate from

472
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:44,720
weakness evaluation something like 500

473
00:25:51,049 --> 00:25:49,559
megabytes so it's a big luminosity

474
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:51,059
right

475
00:25:54,890 --> 00:25:52,740
wonderful

476
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:54,900
um so we have a question from one of our

477
00:26:00,769 --> 00:25:58,320
audience members from David holtzmur Dr

478
00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,779
theodorani indicated his data speaks to

479
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,820
how the phenomena behave I'm curious

480
00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:04,559
what was the most surprising or

481
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:07,740
unexpected Behavior observed so far

482
00:26:15,049 --> 00:26:11,039
yeah it was something that had to do

483
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,059
with the phenomenon of variability which

484
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:16,880
didn't

485
00:26:22,430 --> 00:26:19,980
regard the only as darling but also

486
00:26:23,230 --> 00:26:22,440
similar phenomenal elsewhere in the

487
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:23,240
world

488
00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:26,400
and the point was that the phenomenes

489
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:28,520
who saying

490
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:33,600
in a regular or semi-regular way at the

491
00:26:39,130 --> 00:26:36,720
region of the pulsation was not due to

492
00:26:41,950 --> 00:26:39,140
the fact that phenomenon was inflating

493
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:41,960
so increasing its uh

494
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:45,260
radiating surface but it was because

495
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,840
there were many light balls and all of a

496
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:50,240
sudden where

497
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:55,140
being born around a common nucleus so

498
00:27:02,450 --> 00:26:59,039
something like a clustering effect that

499
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:02,460
was increasing the emitting surface you

500
00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:05,159
can see that if being a thermal

501
00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:08,700
phenomenon the aluminum technology

502
00:27:15,549 --> 00:27:11,900
the increase in Luminosity

503
00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:15,559
increases with the square of the radius

504
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:19,980
and with the fourth power of temperature

505
00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:22,799
it seemed that that time the temperature

506
00:27:29,090 --> 00:27:26,940
was constant but the only thing didn't

507
00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:29,100
change but the only thing that was

508
00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:32,220
changing was the radius but not because

509
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:34,380
it was inflated not only because there

510
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:37,740
was all of a sudden this cluster of

511
00:27:43,850 --> 00:27:40,740
light balls that were forming around

512
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:43,860
each other it could be a kind of natural

513
00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:46,559
phenomenon it could be something else we

514
00:27:51,649 --> 00:27:47,820
don't know yet

515
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:51,659
and Dr theodorani um just to follow up

516
00:27:58,430 --> 00:27:55,260
on that it um I know that you mentioned

517
00:28:00,350 --> 00:27:58,440
uh Dr uh cytovich from the National

518
00:28:03,649 --> 00:28:00,360
Academy of Sciences in Russia his work

519
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:03,659
related to the self-organization of uh

520
00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:06,120
platin plasmas and

521
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:09,480
um his uh lab work especially at the

522
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:12,320
Plasma Research lab in St Petersburg

523
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,840
he's observed in his uh published papers

524
00:28:19,789 --> 00:28:17,520
he describes observing features in

525
00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:19,799
plasma that are consistent with the

526
00:28:25,850 --> 00:28:22,380
modern scientific definition of a living

527
00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:25,860
thing and so then the definition is it

528
00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:27,480
sort of argued then like well maybe we

529
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,860
should change the definition of life

530
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:30,480
rather than saying that a plasma is

531
00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:33,240
alive or maybe the vice versa

532
00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:36,059
um because this uh could which build it

533
00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:37,980
this is a good way to maybe transition

534
00:28:42,769 --> 00:28:40,260
into the discussion on how Consciousness

535
00:28:43,850 --> 00:28:42,779
could relate to this subject

536
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:43,860
um would you be able to talk a little

537
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:46,620
bit about your perception of sort of

538
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:48,840
this self-organizing behavior in the

539
00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:51,360
plasmas and maybe your uh attempts to

540
00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:52,919
interpret it at the time because I know

541
00:28:57,409 --> 00:28:55,140
that you talked you had a

542
00:29:00,529 --> 00:28:57,419
um Gloria Nobile there with you and I

543
00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:00,539
believe she has a masters in a bio uh

544
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:02,580
some sort of biology or something right

545
00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:05,940
biophysics yes and then Dr Marsha Adams

546
00:29:10,430 --> 00:29:07,980
also uh and she's a biologist I believe

547
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,440
so so can you talk a bit about what what

548
00:29:15,049 --> 00:29:12,480
led you to sort of bring biologists uh

549
00:29:16,810 --> 00:29:15,059
Pro experts in biology to the site

550
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:16,820
where I speak

551
00:29:24,529 --> 00:29:21,360
I I speak for myself clearly uh I didn't

552
00:29:30,169 --> 00:29:24,539
discuss with my two colleagues these two

553
00:29:32,049 --> 00:29:30,179
women about this aspect so I because we

554
00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:32,059
didn't collaborate anymore

555
00:29:39,409 --> 00:29:36,740
every one of us went to do her own path

556
00:29:42,289 --> 00:29:39,419
uh I speak

557
00:29:45,769 --> 00:29:42,299
for myself what I think I write the

558
00:29:48,889 --> 00:29:45,779
paper by Tito which at all

559
00:29:51,769 --> 00:29:48,899
um more field friends or from Germany

560
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:51,779
for instance and which was published in

561
00:29:58,730 --> 00:29:55,440
2007 on the new Journal of physics they

562
00:30:02,360 --> 00:29:58,740
did the simulations on a computer and

563
00:30:03,850 --> 00:30:02,370
they noticed that if you make

564
00:30:07,810 --> 00:30:03,860
[Music]

565
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:07,820
interact plasma with dust particles

566
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:10,919
there is a phenomenon of spiraling of

567
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:13,039
plasmas around

568
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:15,440
some nuclei

569
00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:21,840
simulating very much the DNA okay not

570
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:24,740
only the spiral

571
00:30:31,789 --> 00:30:28,740
pattern but also the capability to

572
00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:31,799
multiply itself like if it were a form

573
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:35,100
of life but this is plasma this is not

574
00:30:42,289 --> 00:30:39,360
carbon life okay I I've been this is

575
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,299
part of my speculation which had nothing

576
00:30:48,350 --> 00:30:45,360
to do with my present work but I like to

577
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:48,360
do that because I think it's a

578
00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:52,520
stimulating I noticed that David Baum

579
00:31:00,169 --> 00:30:56,100
Quantum physicists who studied as much

580
00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:00,179
I noticed that this plasma had a

581
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:03,020
Cooperative Behavior they were Behavior

582
00:31:09,289 --> 00:31:06,059
made in like a commonly

583
00:31:12,730 --> 00:31:09,299
only one being all the particles were

584
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:12,740
lucky it was only one being

585
00:31:21,769 --> 00:31:19,140
I.E unite this aspect with the sum of

586
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:21,779
um plasmas which are called plasmas

587
00:31:25,970 --> 00:31:23,460
which are

588
00:31:29,330 --> 00:31:25,980
behaving like if they were where the

589
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:29,340
particles are entangled together like in

590
00:31:37,970 --> 00:31:32,940
quantum mechanics I United this with the

591
00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:42,529
um about this strange DNA like plasma

592
00:31:50,769 --> 00:31:47,000
with the theory of Consciousness by

593
00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:50,779
Professor Roger Penrose another price

594
00:31:58,730 --> 00:31:55,620
physics and Stuart hammeroff about the

595
00:32:02,289 --> 00:31:58,740
theory of Consciousness where they say

596
00:32:04,690 --> 00:32:02,299
that the Consciousness moment can arise

597
00:32:07,690 --> 00:32:04,700
when

598
00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:07,700
they

599
00:32:15,010 --> 00:32:11,700
microtubles in the brain are all related

600
00:32:18,370 --> 00:32:15,020
together in only one entity

601
00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:18,380
which is really

602
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:22,919
described by a wave function of quantum

603
00:32:27,230 --> 00:32:24,960
mechanics when this wave function

604
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:27,240
collapse we have a Consciousness moment

605
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:31,500
at some point I told myself but what

606
00:32:39,010 --> 00:32:35,039
happens if instead of microtubules in

607
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:39,020
the brain we have the plasma particles

608
00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:42,000
does Consciousness

609
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:43,500
um

610
00:32:50,090 --> 00:32:46,799
is consciousness coming on or something

611
00:32:52,970 --> 00:32:50,100
like that what happens when we stimulate

612
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:52,980
them in this plasmas with a laser beam

613
00:32:58,909 --> 00:32:56,159
do we trigger some kind of Consciousness

614
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:58,919
we I think we are very ignorant about

615
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:02,000
the process of life we don't know enough

616
00:33:08,570 --> 00:33:05,760
so I like to launch this thing that is

617
00:33:12,769 --> 00:33:08,580
very provocative in fact my colleagues

618
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:12,779
of City told me I propose this kind of

619
00:33:21,669 --> 00:33:15,840
abstract for Congress and they told them

620
00:33:28,810 --> 00:33:25,130
to the to the Congress I already

621
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:28,820
published on peer reviewer journals

622
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:31,679
astronomic at some point it was there is

623
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:34,500
this possibility why don't we test it

624
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:37,500
because there is a way to test it using

625
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,260
high-speed photometer for instance and

626
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:42,960
see what happens if there is a coded

627
00:33:48,049 --> 00:33:45,659
messaging if there is something that let

628
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,059
us think about intelligence it could be

629
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:50,159
form of life that live only three

630
00:33:56,509 --> 00:33:53,700
minutes or four minutes but what is Life

631
00:34:01,669 --> 00:33:56,519
okay there could be life that is coming

632
00:34:05,230 --> 00:34:01,679
from uh from uh not from carbon and not

633
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:05,240
from Silicon but from plasmas so

634
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:09,119
I like to launch the ball beyond the

635
00:34:13,609 --> 00:34:10,200
river

636
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:13,619
and I like to provoke and don't care if

637
00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:18,000
they shoot at me and I think that we

638
00:34:25,250 --> 00:34:21,540
might I don't know I I know what we

639
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:25,260
should measure to try to test this need

640
00:34:30,129 --> 00:34:28,800
to not a theory yet it's a speculation a

641
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:30,139
mere speculation

642
00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:34,740
so yes this was my thinking

643
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,919
what what are some of the um other

644
00:34:40,669 --> 00:34:39,119
geographical regions in the world that

645
00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:40,679
you would um

646
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:42,780
do you think a promising candidates for

647
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:44,879
has Darlin type phenomena

648
00:34:49,490 --> 00:34:46,859
yeah well

649
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,500
um I've been looking around

650
00:34:56,210 --> 00:34:51,359
and uh

651
00:35:00,370 --> 00:34:56,220
up to uh I would say 10 years ago five

652
00:35:05,390 --> 00:35:00,380
years ago probably I found at least 50

653
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:05,400
50 other regions in the world where uh

654
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:08,000
restaurant

655
00:35:17,210 --> 00:35:14,160
occur and very often and um but I cannot

656
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,220
say that they are the the same kind of

657
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:20,160
phenomena I can only say that there are

658
00:35:27,310 --> 00:35:22,820
a light phenomenon that occur more often

659
00:35:31,069 --> 00:35:27,320
and in the United States uh there are

660
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,079
many locations like the brown Mountain

661
00:35:35,890 --> 00:35:33,839
for instance the Yakima Indian

662
00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:35,900
Reservation

663
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,540
Martha in Texas and there is a job

664
00:35:45,069 --> 00:35:41,760
cleaner somewhere I don't remember which

665
00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:45,079
state there are many locations we meet

666
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:48,119
these things are happening and also the

667
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:51,300
Catalina Island for instance due to the

668
00:36:01,390 --> 00:35:56,720
very support dictate incident that was

669
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:01,400
witnessed by the American Navi that

670
00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:04,859
invites certainly several researchers to

671
00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:08,099
put instruments there to try to measure

672
00:36:16,329 --> 00:36:12,780
in a transparent way in an aimed way and

673
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:16,339
not incidental way like the F-18 Pilots

674
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:19,680
what's going on there so there

675
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:22,200
also in Italy there are several

676
00:36:28,430 --> 00:36:25,280
locations I've been traveling

677
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,440
not only in Australian matters in

678
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:30,000
Arizona

679
00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:34,980
in Ontario Canada and in Ireland in

680
00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:36,900
several locations where this kind of

681
00:36:41,630 --> 00:36:39,240
phenomena Pier but I cannot say it's the

682
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:41,640
same kind of Phenom because sometimes

683
00:36:46,849 --> 00:36:44,940
the picture is confused and there are

684
00:36:49,609 --> 00:36:46,859
some phenomena that are plasma looking

685
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,619
either from that look look like

686
00:36:55,550 --> 00:36:52,079
something more structured and there are

687
00:36:57,530 --> 00:36:55,560
situations in which a structured light

688
00:37:00,530 --> 00:36:57,540
structured

689
00:37:01,870 --> 00:37:00,540
um phenomena like flying Source or

690
00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:01,880
triandles

691
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,430
when um when we're discussing anomalous

692
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,680
phenomena plasma consciousness

693
00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:15,359
it feels to me like these are subjects

694
00:37:20,109 --> 00:37:17,820
that have outsize influence on a whole

695
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:20,119
constellation of additional subjects

696
00:37:25,490 --> 00:37:23,880
what other disciplines or areas of

697
00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:25,500
research and study do you believe

698
00:37:30,050 --> 00:37:27,780
benefit from this kind of research that

699
00:37:31,849 --> 00:37:30,060
you've undertaken both at hastilin and

700
00:37:35,569 --> 00:37:31,859
in other areas

701
00:37:39,050 --> 00:37:35,579
no good questions well I would say I

702
00:37:43,870 --> 00:37:39,060
could I could list uh one and clearly is

703
00:37:45,609 --> 00:37:43,880
particle physics okay one is biophysics

704
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:45,619
and

705
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:48,079
one is

706
00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:51,480
neurophysiology because it's very

707
00:37:59,089 --> 00:37:55,380
important to study the reaction of uh of

708
00:38:03,410 --> 00:37:59,099
our body and in particular of the human

709
00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:03,420
brain to electromagnetic fields that are

710
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:06,300
produced in those areas in fact the

711
00:38:10,810 --> 00:38:09,060
install and there is uh it didn't happen

712
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:10,820
to me but

713
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:13,140
there are situations in which people

714
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:16,500
were feeling like a uh

715
00:38:26,109 --> 00:38:21,839
um on a boat in a rocking motion so this

716
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:26,119
is typical of the very long

717
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:30,960
wavelength vlf or elf in fact we tried

718
00:38:36,829 --> 00:38:33,480
to measure something there and we found

719
00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:36,839
something but we couldn't explain that

720
00:38:44,109 --> 00:38:40,859
so yeah I would say biophysics particle

721
00:38:50,450 --> 00:38:46,510
neurophysiology

722
00:38:53,210 --> 00:38:50,460
I would say and also geophysics clearly

723
00:38:55,630 --> 00:38:53,220
because this kind of phenomenon could be

724
00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:55,640
triggered by

725
00:39:02,089 --> 00:38:58,520
something that is coming from the ground

726
00:39:06,109 --> 00:39:02,099
like a piece or electricity for instance

727
00:39:09,770 --> 00:39:06,119
they could trigger a light bulb but what

728
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,780
we don't know why this light bulb is uh

729
00:39:15,230 --> 00:39:12,079
how to say

730
00:39:18,730 --> 00:39:15,240
self-contained for so long time there

731
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:18,740
are several theories also from my friend

732
00:39:26,589 --> 00:39:22,800
criminal physicist David Turner who

733
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:26,599
thinks that the containment mechanism is

734
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:30,480
electrochemical from water droplets in

735
00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:32,520
the atmosphere there are many other

736
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,300
theories and it's too early to to think

737
00:39:41,630 --> 00:39:39,119
about that but to their several yes at

738
00:39:44,270 --> 00:39:41,640
least four or five scientific

739
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,280
disciplines that would be involved in

740
00:39:49,069 --> 00:39:46,320
this research

741
00:39:50,510 --> 00:39:49,079
wonderful yeah that's uh that's really

742
00:39:52,010 --> 00:39:50,520
interesting and

743
00:39:54,910 --> 00:39:52,020
um just for people who aren't familiar

744
00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:54,920
with your uh on the groundwork in

745
00:40:01,010 --> 00:39:58,020
hezdalen and other regions um it would

746
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:01,020
be neat to potentially hear a couple of

747
00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:03,780
the uh circumstances circumstances that

748
00:40:07,310 --> 00:40:04,920
you were describing where you've

749
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:07,320
personally uh witnessed these types of

750
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:09,900
phenomena because you know for a lot of

751
00:40:13,730 --> 00:40:11,700
people it's it's sort of an abstract

752
00:40:15,530 --> 00:40:13,740
thing right so

753
00:40:18,410 --> 00:40:15,540
um like it's very interesting to me that

754
00:40:21,170 --> 00:40:18,420
you're a uh you know doctor in Stellar

755
00:40:23,450 --> 00:40:21,180
physics who has been on the ground and

756
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:23,460
like directly seen these things a number

757
00:40:29,089 --> 00:40:25,740
of times in close proximity to the point

758
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:29,099
where you and most people be convinced

759
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,140
that you know it exists now how do I

760
00:40:35,569 --> 00:40:34,079
explain to other people that this exists

761
00:40:38,690 --> 00:40:35,579
um yeah so would you be able to just

762
00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:38,700
relate a couple of those times when you

763
00:40:42,349 --> 00:40:40,320
became convinced by what you saw that

764
00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:42,359
there is something actually occurring

765
00:40:49,690 --> 00:40:46,670
um

766
00:40:52,609 --> 00:40:49,700
I would say uh

767
00:40:57,230 --> 00:40:52,619
the second time I went to this doll and

768
00:41:01,089 --> 00:40:57,240
I it was a mission 22 years ago in uh in

769
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:01,099
the beginning of August of the year 2000

770
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:03,300
I was with

771
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:04,020
um

772
00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:07,260
with a colleague at the main

773
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:10,980
observational point we were three at the

774
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:15,599
hospital in Maine is part of observation

775
00:41:21,310 --> 00:41:18,420
and we had other two colleagues one

776
00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:21,320
engineer and one physicist

777
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:25,740
two miles away from us in a different

778
00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:27,420
position

779
00:41:34,250 --> 00:41:30,020
um at some point my colleague

780
00:41:35,290 --> 00:41:34,260
was also my boss at my radio astronomy

781
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:35,300
Department

782
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,880
told look look towards South and there

783
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:41,280
were there were three lights that were

784
00:41:47,450 --> 00:41:44,400
moving where is slowly

785
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:47,460
and I didn't give importance to that but

786
00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:53,040
these three lights came towards us and

787
00:42:00,170 --> 00:41:56,280
um I took my binocular there was no time

788
00:42:01,329 --> 00:42:00,180
to video it because it was moving too

789
00:42:10,910 --> 00:42:01,339
fast

790
00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:10,920
okay so it was a triangular thing with

791
00:42:17,870 --> 00:42:13,980
the three lights on the vertexes no

792
00:42:21,970 --> 00:42:17,880
light in the in the center and I

793
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:21,980
remember that it was about midnight but

794
00:42:28,210 --> 00:42:25,140
it could be possible it was a Norwegian

795
00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:28,220
night so there was some residual light

796
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:31,980
which allowed me to see

797
00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:35,700
um clearly very clearly with binocular

798
00:42:43,609 --> 00:42:40,140
um a shape the Triangular dark shape in

799
00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:43,619
the sky this was looking like a flying

800
00:42:52,849 --> 00:42:47,880
machine not out and it was moving over

801
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:52,859
our heads it stopped over our heads and

802
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:56,880
started to rotate and disappeared so it

803
00:43:05,809 --> 00:43:00,480
didn't move away it seems those lights

804
00:43:09,349 --> 00:43:05,819
turned off slowly out so it was looking

805
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:09,359
really like a machine this doesn't mean

806
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:13,200
that uh this doesn't prove that we were

807
00:43:21,609 --> 00:43:16,460
approached by a extraterrestrial

808
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:21,619
flying arms but that was a machine and

809
00:43:28,130 --> 00:43:25,079
and strangely I noticed that someone is

810
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,140
doing experiments somewhere in throndein

811
00:43:33,470 --> 00:43:30,480
which is not far away from US dollar it

812
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:33,480
should be 200 kilometers on drones

813
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:37,280
particular kind of drones but that thing

814
00:43:45,650 --> 00:43:42,720
was uh very big it was much apparently

815
00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:45,660
much bigger than the little drones that

816
00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:47,940
are they were experimenting it was

817
00:43:51,410 --> 00:43:49,260
something different

818
00:43:56,829 --> 00:43:51,420
it didn't finish

819
00:44:00,530 --> 00:43:56,839
here because uh three or four days later

820
00:44:02,450 --> 00:44:00,540
in August 2000 should have been five of

821
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:02,460
Augusta

822
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:06,540
um I was with uh two colleagues

823
00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:09,599
and all of a sudden there was a small

824
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:14,460
very small oval light that passed over

825
00:44:22,130 --> 00:44:19,680
our heads and stopped in front of the of

826
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:22,140
the fur trees that were in front of us

827
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:27,300
about 200 feet away from us it stood

828
00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:30,300
still there for 10 minutes it was their

829
00:44:36,050 --> 00:44:32,700
standing still it was very low

830
00:44:38,690 --> 00:44:36,060
Luminosity it was completely different

831
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:38,700
from the standard of the plasma lights

832
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:41,280
that we see installing it was like

833
00:44:50,569 --> 00:44:45,200
translucent it was like a giant Firefly

834
00:44:54,730 --> 00:44:50,579
uh the day later I went uh there and

835
00:44:58,370 --> 00:44:54,740
with my steps I could measure

836
00:45:01,370 --> 00:44:58,380
the distance which was 90 meters I took

837
00:45:04,670 --> 00:45:01,380
a photograph about that of the that

838
00:45:05,569 --> 00:45:04,680
thing but I didn't have time to to put

839
00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:05,579
this

840
00:45:11,329 --> 00:45:08,760
the Spectrum grading

841
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:11,339
it was 40 centimeters it was something

842
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:13,160
like elliptical

843
00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:17,220
floating trans percent

844
00:45:23,390 --> 00:45:21,300
uh yeah these are things that happen I

845
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:23,400
was feeling cold

846
00:45:31,730 --> 00:45:26,480
no fear nothing only interested in

847
00:45:33,890 --> 00:45:31,740
trying to observe and take data coldly

848
00:45:36,829 --> 00:45:33,900
so this is what happened in this darling

849
00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:36,839
and not only in a Stalin but there were

850
00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:38,700
other events that happened to me

851
00:45:48,349 --> 00:45:46,970
so anyway

852
00:45:50,450 --> 00:45:48,359
wonderful

853
00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:50,460
um and thank you so much so we have

854
00:45:56,329 --> 00:45:53,220
another question from an audience member

855
00:45:58,490 --> 00:45:56,339
um Joel asks is there a favored theory

856
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:58,500
that proposes the mechanism allowing

857
00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:00,960
such localized densities of energy to

858
00:46:10,730 --> 00:46:03,720
form at such low altitudes

859
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:10,740
yeah well I think that so far the most

860
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:13,920
favored theory is

861
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:17,839
um that in particular conditions

862
00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:22,560
rocks can produce electrical energy

863
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:26,040
and in particularly through the PSO

864
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:29,880
Electric mechanism but not only through

865
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,260
it this is only one of the examples it

866
00:46:41,150 --> 00:46:37,200
can happen that if rocks in particular

867
00:46:43,809 --> 00:46:41,160
particular kind of rods like uh

868
00:46:49,370 --> 00:46:43,819
um quartz

869
00:46:52,609 --> 00:46:49,380
Basalt and very strong rocks they can

870
00:46:56,569 --> 00:46:52,619
crash together due to several causes

871
00:47:00,730 --> 00:46:56,579
like a seismic shots they can create

872
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:00,740
case electric effect which liberate

873
00:47:07,550 --> 00:47:04,319
electric energy in the air

874
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:07,560
and create the plasma the point is that

875
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:10,680
we can explain this because it has been

876
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:13,740
simulated in a laboratory like from

877
00:47:20,270 --> 00:47:17,280
Professor Friedman freund uh

878
00:47:23,329 --> 00:47:20,280
geophysicist he did that with the

879
00:47:25,609 --> 00:47:23,339
compression of rocks in a laboratory he

880
00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:25,619
demonstrated that there is a lot of

881
00:47:34,089 --> 00:47:29,940
electricity that is produced but what we

882
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,099
don't understand how is it possible that

883
00:47:42,589 --> 00:47:37,440
electricity which is producing Plasma in

884
00:47:45,410 --> 00:47:42,599
the air is so self-contained in a

885
00:47:47,050 --> 00:47:45,420
spherical shape in general not always

886
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:47,060
spherical but

887
00:47:56,510 --> 00:47:52,319
for a long time because plasma is heated

888
00:48:01,130 --> 00:47:56,520
the gas that tends to expand and this

889
00:48:04,250 --> 00:48:01,140
creates cooling so the duration of this

890
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:04,260
thing would be not more than a few

891
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:06,960
seconds instead what we see in this

892
00:48:12,550 --> 00:48:09,920
darling is something that can last up to

893
00:48:15,470 --> 00:48:12,560
up to two hours

894
00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:15,480
are things that are like light bulbs

895
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:17,240
that are

896
00:48:26,829 --> 00:48:20,520
self-contained and that don't change

897
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:26,839
shape sometimes the that the speed other

898
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:30,720
uh other light walls or they merge with

899
00:48:39,170 --> 00:48:33,920
other light bulbs and they

900
00:48:42,349 --> 00:48:39,180
float okay and but they don't exhaust

901
00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:42,359
themselves okay so there must be a

902
00:48:50,050 --> 00:48:45,960
mechanism that is confining this plasma

903
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:50,060
for so long time one could be

904
00:48:56,690 --> 00:48:53,520
electrochemical mechanism through water

905
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:56,700
droplet like the theory of David Turner

906
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:00,480
another one something more exotic like a

907
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:04,319
central Force like a mini black hole

908
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:05,880
practically a

909
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:10,040
Central force that is collecting

910
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:13,920
atmospheric air turning it into a plasma

911
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:16,440
due to high temperature that is being

912
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:20,520
created and also inflating amplifying

913
00:49:28,849 --> 00:49:24,720
the magnetic field which is frozen and

914
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:28,859
normally in in the atoms okay in the

915
00:49:35,950 --> 00:49:32,400
universe in general and the more this

916
00:49:39,309 --> 00:49:35,960
collapses and the more magnetic field

917
00:49:43,130 --> 00:49:39,319
become strong

918
00:49:47,450 --> 00:49:43,140
and the more this magnetic field works

919
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:47,460
like a cage able to contain plasma and

920
00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:50,760
to prevent it from expanding outside so

921
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:54,060
preventing it from cooling so this is

922
00:50:00,410 --> 00:49:57,119
this is only an example okay in reality

923
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:00,420
there are several theories and it seems

924
00:50:11,150 --> 00:50:03,200
the in the case of ex-dialed and

925
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:13,250
are there any places in the solar system

926
00:50:18,109 --> 00:50:15,180
that you would look at like maybe the

927
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:18,119
Sun or Jupiter or Mars where you would

928
00:50:22,609 --> 00:50:20,280
find similar phenomena and where maybe

929
00:50:23,930 --> 00:50:22,619
since the human environment is not

930
00:50:25,490 --> 00:50:23,940
present there

931
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,500
um could you think of like something

932
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:27,359
about the human environment which might

933
00:50:32,829 --> 00:50:30,060
be making it more difficult to detect

934
00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:32,839
those things on earth

935
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:34,560
well

936
00:50:40,010 --> 00:50:39,440
um in reality there is a little

937
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:40,020
[Music]

938
00:50:44,089 --> 00:50:40,920
um

939
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:44,099
plan and teach some kind of asteroid in

940
00:50:49,309 --> 00:50:45,240
reality is

941
00:50:52,809 --> 00:50:49,319
Terrace where some strange lights have

942
00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:52,819
been observed well there are several

943
00:50:59,390 --> 00:50:55,140
interpretation of these lights I don't

944
00:51:01,730 --> 00:50:59,400
remember now what geologists say but

945
00:51:05,230 --> 00:51:01,740
this kind of phenomenon Could Happen

946
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:05,240
everywhere in the solar system and

947
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:08,160
especially if there are seismic

948
00:51:14,030 --> 00:51:10,400
situations because

949
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:14,040
earthquakes which can happen everywhere

950
00:51:20,809 --> 00:51:17,839
in the solar system could crash

951
00:51:23,809 --> 00:51:20,819
the Rocks against each other to produce

952
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:23,819
this kind of plasma the point is that if

953
00:51:31,849 --> 00:51:27,599
there is no atmosphere there is a

954
00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:31,859
no atmosphere then you don't it's

955
00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:34,200
difficult to create a plasma because you

956
00:51:39,950 --> 00:51:35,880
have nothing to hit

957
00:51:43,609 --> 00:51:39,960
them so could happen to in Mars it could

958
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:43,619
happen in Venus uh maybe it would happen

959
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:49,040
in uh giant planets like Jupiter Uranus

960
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:51,839
Saturn I think it's a phenomena that is

961
00:52:01,250 --> 00:51:54,900
not only based on Earth

962
00:52:06,589 --> 00:52:02,930
now based on

963
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,599
um your observations uh in hezdalen I uh

964
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:08,160
I find it very interesting that you saw

965
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,040
sort of the variety of phenomena that um

966
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:13,440
are today the most prominent

967
00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:15,900
um you saw like an ellipsoid that

968
00:52:21,530 --> 00:52:18,059
appeared to be low Luminosity

969
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:21,540
um and then you saw a triangular form

970
00:52:27,049 --> 00:52:23,579
it's uh you know it's a very interesting

971
00:52:29,329 --> 00:52:27,059
about the Drone uh program in Tron time

972
00:52:31,069 --> 00:52:29,339
um it's also interesting how uh I've

973
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:31,079
heard the very similar type of story

974
00:52:37,010 --> 00:52:34,680
from so many people in this community

975
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:37,020
um of a you know a black triangle uh

976
00:52:41,870 --> 00:52:39,480
appearing moving towards or away or

977
00:52:44,690 --> 00:52:41,880
whatever and then instantaneously

978
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:44,700
accelerating straight up or dissipating

979
00:52:47,569 --> 00:52:47,040
as you're describing

980
00:52:50,030 --> 00:52:47,579
um

981
00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:50,040
now I know that like the UK Ministry of

982
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,380
Defense uh that had their top secret

983
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,960
report that was uh distributed and top

984
00:52:59,809 --> 00:52:56,880
leadership there was briefed in 2000

985
00:53:02,450 --> 00:52:59,819
that these black triangles are

986
00:53:05,690 --> 00:53:02,460
um an expression of a natural phenomenon

987
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,700
akin to ball lightning that uh in modern

988
00:53:10,430 --> 00:53:07,200
labs they produce things called

989
00:53:13,609 --> 00:53:10,440
skirmians that do uh couple and form

990
00:53:15,650 --> 00:53:13,619
triangular shapes and things like that

991
00:53:17,329 --> 00:53:15,660
um and you're saying like it very

992
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:17,339
clearly was like it looked like a

993
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:18,480
machine because it looked like there was

994
00:53:22,430 --> 00:53:20,220
a physical form in the middle and they

995
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:22,440
say and they they briefed their uh

996
00:53:25,849 --> 00:53:23,640
intelligent people briefed everyone

997
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:25,859
saying oh the electromagnetic uh

998
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:28,980
coupling mechanism appears to form a uh

999
00:53:33,470 --> 00:53:31,380
field through like which the light does

1000
00:53:35,870 --> 00:53:33,480
not reflect so it like looks black and

1001
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:35,880
stuff like that if you could just ref

1002
00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:37,800
like maybe I'd like to hear your

1003
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:40,440
thoughts about like interpretation

1004
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,020
versus observation since that's so key

1005
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:44,400
to these things

1006
00:53:47,210 --> 00:53:45,599
um you know it's like the first thing

1007
00:53:49,069 --> 00:53:47,220
the light that's low Luminosity very

1008
00:53:51,290 --> 00:53:49,079
small like that you know it's it's more

1009
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:51,300
clearly like not at least a human

1010
00:53:56,089 --> 00:53:52,800
machine

1011
00:53:57,770 --> 00:53:56,099
how like when you were seeing that black

1012
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,780
triangle in a fully disintegrated like

1013
00:54:00,589 --> 00:53:59,520
how was your mind processing that and

1014
00:54:02,270 --> 00:54:00,599
that's sort of what we've been getting

1015
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:02,280
into with this stuff with our viewers

1016
00:54:05,690 --> 00:54:04,260
especially like this processing of what

1017
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:05,700
has been observed and how it conflicts

1018
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,200
with like what you expect from reality

1019
00:54:10,670 --> 00:54:09,119
was that like a reality breaking moment

1020
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,680
for you when you saw that triangle

1021
00:54:16,030 --> 00:54:12,480
dissipate above you

1022
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:16,040
no no not at all

1023
00:54:22,970 --> 00:54:19,200
at that moment I was

1024
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:22,980
um uh completely calm

1025
00:54:28,609 --> 00:54:26,160
um because I had a goal tried to get

1026
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:28,619
much more to absorb and much more

1027
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:33,359
information as possible so uh no

1028
00:54:41,150 --> 00:54:37,920
um I didn't feel to jump all of a sudden

1029
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:41,160
into another reality or that my mind was

1030
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:42,800
getting uh

1031
00:54:49,370 --> 00:54:46,319
drunk or or something I was completely

1032
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:49,380
lucid and I was observing something that

1033
00:54:56,030 --> 00:54:53,520
was concrete that had nothing to do with

1034
00:54:58,609 --> 00:54:56,040
the natural phenomenon in that case even

1035
00:55:01,630 --> 00:54:58,619
if I was hunting for strange natural

1036
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:01,640
phenomenon and

1037
00:55:06,190 --> 00:55:05,040
my capability of interpreting reality

1038
00:55:08,589 --> 00:55:06,200
was

1039
00:55:13,309 --> 00:55:08,599
very lucid

1040
00:55:14,890 --> 00:55:13,319
at that time but I have to say humanly

1041
00:55:18,609 --> 00:55:14,900
as a human being

1042
00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:18,619
I had a the reaction

1043
00:55:26,329 --> 00:55:22,200
because after two weeks I started to

1044
00:55:30,109 --> 00:55:26,339
have strange nightmares or something my

1045
00:55:33,770 --> 00:55:30,119
reaction human reaction happened much

1046
00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:33,780
later not much later but later but at

1047
00:55:40,370 --> 00:55:37,740
that moment everything was uh I was very

1048
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:40,380
attentive to that I was so attentive

1049
00:55:46,130 --> 00:55:43,260
that was also unconscious because at

1050
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:46,140
some point I tried to approach that a

1051
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:50,000
little lighter that we saw

1052
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:53,180
a few days after the triangular thing

1053
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:56,480
and I approached I was about

1054
00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:00,000
something like 40 50 meters away from

1055
00:56:06,530 --> 00:56:03,720
that with my camera I took a photo and

1056
00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:06,540
my colleague was scared told they come

1057
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,240
back immediately can be dangerous

1058
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:12,000
and I could see several things also with

1059
00:56:19,549 --> 00:56:15,119
the binoculars very details that a photo

1060
00:56:26,329 --> 00:56:22,970
there was something that was not uh

1061
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:26,339
dealing about the match of an atro

1062
00:56:30,829 --> 00:56:27,680
mm-hmm

1063
00:56:32,329 --> 00:56:30,839
this doesn't mean that this is alien or

1064
00:56:37,370 --> 00:56:32,339
something could that could have been a

1065
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:37,380
maybe also a a prank why not why should

1066
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,480
I should I exclude that no I cannot but

1067
00:56:47,150 --> 00:56:44,880
that was artificial

1068
00:56:49,970 --> 00:56:47,160
there are so many people in this uh

1069
00:56:51,290 --> 00:56:49,980
Community who literally go outside and

1070
00:56:53,870 --> 00:56:51,300
effectively

1071
00:56:56,930 --> 00:56:53,880
um you know pray or meditate on uh

1072
00:56:59,450 --> 00:56:56,940
hoping for a UFO to present itself to

1073
00:57:01,790 --> 00:56:59,460
them and um even though their lives are

1074
00:57:03,710 --> 00:57:01,800
sort of dedicated to the belief in these

1075
00:57:05,210 --> 00:57:03,720
phenomena they've never actually seen

1076
00:57:08,329 --> 00:57:05,220
one

1077
00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:08,339
um so like was there any validation to

1078
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:10,440
you in actually like physically seeing

1079
00:57:14,510 --> 00:57:12,720
it so close up and sort of getting the

1080
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:14,520
sense that at least for you personally

1081
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:16,800
it's sort of resolved that there is this

1082
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,750
well

1083
00:57:27,790 --> 00:57:25,849
I don't know this is a strange question

1084
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:27,800
can you please

1085
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,160
yes I'm sorry oh to reframe it

1086
00:57:38,030 --> 00:57:35,040
yes please yes okay after spending um

1087
00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:38,040
you know so much of your uh time and

1088
00:57:43,970 --> 00:57:41,400
energy and uh you know just life's

1089
00:57:46,910 --> 00:57:43,980
effort on trying to verify that these

1090
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:46,920
phenomena uh do exist

1091
00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:49,500
how was there a sense of like

1092
00:57:54,829 --> 00:57:52,440
satisfaction at least or something in

1093
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:54,839
ultimately actually being so physically

1094
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:57,359
close to one

1095
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:01,520
no no okay it was uh

1096
00:58:08,690 --> 00:58:04,800
it was something yeah

1097
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:08,700
I was cold I was completely cold I was

1098
00:58:15,290 --> 00:58:12,720
feeling like uh when I was I I did a lot

1099
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:15,300
of observations with the several kind of

1100
00:58:23,329 --> 00:58:19,380
telescopes and uh I was like when I was

1101
00:58:25,970 --> 00:58:23,339
observing my telescope uh only worried

1102
00:58:28,790 --> 00:58:25,980
to try to get good information and good

1103
00:58:33,490 --> 00:58:28,800
data okay so

1104
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:33,500
um no I didn't feel any

1105
00:58:41,329 --> 00:58:37,680
well maybe some emotion with the

1106
00:58:45,230 --> 00:58:41,339
triangular thing yes but the big Motion

1107
00:58:48,650 --> 00:58:45,240
in my case came not at the moment but it

1108
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:48,660
came a few days later because to me I

1109
00:58:55,390 --> 00:58:51,359
during the night I woke up at all

1110
00:58:57,170 --> 00:58:55,400
what what what happened what was that

1111
00:59:00,829 --> 00:58:57,180
but

1112
00:59:03,049 --> 00:59:00,839
um at that point uh at that moment you

1113
00:59:06,430 --> 00:59:03,059
know there was because there is also a

1114
00:59:09,530 --> 00:59:06,440
sense of Duty that we have to try to

1115
00:59:12,109 --> 00:59:09,540
collect everything to be absolutely calm

1116
00:59:12,770 --> 00:59:12,119
and uh and and take that

1117
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:12,780
um

1118
00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:15,540
for Science and

1119
00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:16,520
um

1120
00:59:21,609 --> 00:59:19,740
I think that the UFO phenomenon can be

1121
00:59:26,329 --> 00:59:21,619
very dangerous because

1122
00:59:29,930 --> 00:59:26,339
it could be used as a weapon to

1123
00:59:34,849 --> 00:59:29,940
manipulate the mind of people

1124
00:59:35,569 --> 00:59:34,859
um in a very severe way and uh

1125
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:35,579
um

1126
00:59:44,870 --> 00:59:40,079
it could create also new religions

1127
00:59:48,110 --> 00:59:44,880
so this thing is very very dangerous

1128
00:59:49,250 --> 00:59:48,120
so and people must

1129
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,260
[Music]

1130
00:59:54,589 --> 00:59:51,680
I understand that

1131
00:59:55,970 --> 00:59:54,599
some of these things create particular

1132
00:59:59,390 --> 00:59:55,980
Sensations

1133
01:00:02,870 --> 00:59:59,400
I had particular lucid dreams that are

1134
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:02,880
marvelous okay but

1135
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:05,760
um we have to be careful because there

1136
01:00:11,170 --> 01:00:07,680
are some people who created religions

1137
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:11,180
and with this and

1138
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:15,119
uh it can be very dangerous socially so

1139
01:00:18,849 --> 01:00:16,799
I'm wondering if there is an

1140
01:00:23,049 --> 01:00:18,859
intelligence if this intelligence won't

1141
01:00:27,829 --> 01:00:23,059
manipulate Humanity in um

1142
01:00:32,809 --> 01:00:27,839
how to say Collective way and it it can

1143
01:00:35,650 --> 01:00:32,819
just succeed and maybe some religions in

1144
01:00:40,190 --> 01:00:35,660
the past were born in that way

1145
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:40,200
but we have to welcome be confident in

1146
01:00:47,450 --> 01:00:43,920
our rationality and

1147
01:00:51,530 --> 01:00:47,460
believe in ourselves okay and not

1148
01:00:54,410 --> 01:00:51,540
delegate uh every responsibility to a

1149
01:00:55,930 --> 01:00:54,420
god that is out of us but only to

1150
01:01:01,490 --> 01:00:55,940
believe in our

1151
01:01:04,010 --> 01:01:01,500
mind Lucidity uh honesty and

1152
01:01:07,609 --> 01:01:04,020
intelligence okay because this is our

1153
01:01:12,770 --> 01:01:07,619
freedom or whatever comes out trying to

1154
01:01:18,130 --> 01:01:12,780
manipulate our emotions is dangerous

1155
01:01:21,170 --> 01:01:18,140
okay and this is my opinion even if uh

1156
01:01:26,450 --> 01:01:21,180
some I had some

1157
01:01:28,870 --> 01:01:26,460
I would say uh lucid dreams in in the

1158
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:28,880
past but the

1159
01:01:36,650 --> 01:01:33,119
where you see these Visions in the mind

1160
01:01:40,730 --> 01:01:36,660
that are incredibly clear that are

1161
01:01:45,770 --> 01:01:40,740
creating a big sensation of

1162
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:45,780
um Peace of truths of something in spite

1163
01:01:51,250 --> 01:01:48,960
of that I invite everyone who have this

1164
01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:51,260
kind of experience

1165
01:01:58,250 --> 01:01:55,260
do not share with the others because

1166
01:02:00,710 --> 01:01:58,260
because of two reasons the first one is

1167
01:02:03,770 --> 01:02:00,720
that you can manipulate the others with

1168
01:02:06,010 --> 01:02:03,780
yours the second thing is that if you

1169
01:02:09,770 --> 01:02:06,020
speak of this beautiful

1170
01:02:12,410 --> 01:02:09,780
things to the others the others could

1171
01:02:16,490 --> 01:02:12,420
try to

1172
01:02:18,770 --> 01:02:16,500
um spoin your beautiful experience so

1173
01:02:23,030 --> 01:02:18,780
this is something that belongs to the

1174
01:02:25,010 --> 01:02:23,040
private sphere okay about spirituality

1175
01:02:26,990 --> 01:02:25,020
about

1176
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,000
um we have to be careful because this

1177
01:02:32,510 --> 01:02:30,000
phenomenon could manipulate reality to

1178
01:02:34,789 --> 01:02:32,520
badly used

1179
01:02:38,030 --> 01:02:34,799
do you feel that is there a risk that

1180
01:02:40,609 --> 01:02:38,040
perhaps you yourself were maybe not

1181
01:02:41,690 --> 01:02:40,619
manipulated but influenced by your

1182
01:02:44,510 --> 01:02:41,700
earlier

1183
01:02:49,809 --> 01:02:44,520
interest in readings and UFOs

1184
01:02:53,030 --> 01:02:49,819
no not at all I would say absolutely not

1185
01:02:57,049 --> 01:02:53,040
because I have to say I've been reading

1186
01:02:59,150 --> 01:02:57,059
uh reading I was a looking here and

1187
01:03:03,710 --> 01:02:59,160
there inside the books because they were

1188
01:03:06,170 --> 01:03:03,720
so boring that I was not able to go on

1189
01:03:09,170 --> 01:03:06,180
okay there were these stories some

1190
01:03:12,650 --> 01:03:09,180
stories which I know by memory are very

1191
01:03:16,609 --> 01:03:12,660
interesting but some others were

1192
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:16,619
it was not stimulating okay

1193
01:03:24,650 --> 01:03:20,400
um mentally so no not at all I have

1194
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:24,660
never felt myself uh manipulated by by

1195
01:03:34,849 --> 01:03:32,569
wonderful

1196
01:03:35,690 --> 01:03:34,859
um so Dr teodarani we are at the top of

1197
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:35,700
the hour

1198
01:03:41,569 --> 01:03:38,880
I want to thank you so much uh for

1199
01:03:43,490 --> 01:03:41,579
joining us in this conversation I'm

1200
01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:43,500
really excited about the conversation we

1201
01:03:48,910 --> 01:03:45,540
had about Consciousness about research

1202
01:03:52,190 --> 01:03:48,920
about all the interdisciplinary

1203
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:52,200
considerations to this kind of work

1204
01:03:59,049 --> 01:03:56,640
um what before uh you depart where can

1205
01:04:04,130 --> 01:03:59,059
our audience find you

1206
01:04:04,790 --> 01:04:04,140
uh yes it's um I have a website

1207
01:04:11,650 --> 01:04:04,800
um

1208
01:04:19,630 --> 01:04:15,849
look uh you put website a

1209
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:19,640
massimoto.com yes if I were to remember

1210
01:04:28,430 --> 01:04:25,280
I I I I got to see to to to do a check

1211
01:04:32,569 --> 01:04:28,440
but I think it's massive running.com

1212
01:04:35,630 --> 01:04:32,579
there are several articles that I bought

1213
01:04:39,710 --> 01:04:35,640
my selection of a very few I would say

1214
01:04:43,789 --> 01:04:39,720
very few yes Massimo tutorami.com there

1215
01:04:46,010 --> 01:04:43,799
are several articles that speak about

1216
01:04:51,049 --> 01:04:46,020
something about my research

1217
01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:51,059
about my thoughts and also about my

1218
01:04:56,450 --> 01:04:53,339
music because I do experiment with the

1219
01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:56,460
synthetizers and with the electronic

1220
01:05:01,010 --> 01:04:57,900
music

1221
01:05:02,710 --> 01:05:01,020
awesome well again Dr teodorani thank

1222
01:05:08,089 --> 01:05:02,720
you so much

1223
01:05:11,690 --> 01:05:08,099
having me here of course take care

1224
01:05:15,950 --> 01:05:13,549
all right gentlemen

1225
01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:15,960
that was awesome right yeah that was

1226
01:05:20,089 --> 01:05:17,940
really yes

1227
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:20,099
I always like I always really like

1228
01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:23,760
hearing uh Dr tutorani talk about his uh

1229
01:05:28,069 --> 01:05:26,099
personal experiences observing

1230
01:05:29,990 --> 01:05:28,079
the phenomena even if it can't be

1231
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:30,000
scientifically proven I think it's so

1232
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:32,640
interesting to think of a uh you know a

1233
01:05:37,370 --> 01:05:35,880
doctor in physics seeing something like

1234
01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:37,380
that and then trying to figure it out

1235
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:40,200
from uh that perspective

1236
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:42,720
yeah see I

1237
01:05:46,910 --> 01:05:45,480
had a familiarity with his work and had

1238
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:46,920
listened to some of his interviews but

1239
01:05:51,289 --> 01:05:49,440
somehow missed the story that he talked

1240
01:05:53,210 --> 01:05:51,299
about today about this sort of delayed

1241
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:53,220
processing

1242
01:06:00,349 --> 01:05:57,599
um of his sighting and how it uh

1243
01:06:01,250 --> 01:06:00,359
affected him or sort of you know how it

1244
01:06:03,349 --> 01:06:01,260
um

1245
01:06:05,569 --> 01:06:03,359
how it kind of showed up in his I guess

1246
01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:05,579
Consciousness or memory or whatever a

1247
01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:06,839
few days later I think that's really

1248
01:06:12,289 --> 01:06:08,099
interesting

1249
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:12,299
um and I I deeply appreciate the

1250
01:06:18,410 --> 01:06:14,880
almost scientific Detachment he had

1251
01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:18,420
towards recounting this experience and

1252
01:06:24,609 --> 01:06:21,420
his insights it was very cool to witness

1253
01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:24,619
right the simultaneous open-mindedness

1254
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:27,680
alongside a

1255
01:06:34,490 --> 01:06:32,400
analytical and objective discussion of

1256
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:34,500
what he personally

1257
01:06:39,770 --> 01:06:37,380
um has experienced

1258
01:06:42,170 --> 01:06:39,780
there are a lot of people uh who study

1259
01:06:45,710 --> 01:06:42,180
this subject and I have to say that Dr

1260
01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:45,720
tutorani I uh he's definitely one of if

1261
01:06:49,609 --> 01:06:47,640
not my favorite uh academic

1262
01:06:52,190 --> 01:06:49,619
investigating the subject and one of the

1263
01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:52,200
things I like so much about his work is

1264
01:06:58,250 --> 01:06:55,500
that he is always so uh precise uh and

1265
01:07:01,069 --> 01:06:58,260
clear about when he's speculating and

1266
01:07:02,809 --> 01:07:01,079
when he's describing observations

1267
01:07:05,690 --> 01:07:02,819
um and I also really like that he will

1268
01:07:07,250 --> 01:07:05,700
dive quite deep into speculation uh he's

1269
01:07:08,750 --> 01:07:07,260
willing to do that but in it he always

1270
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:08,760
ties it to

1271
01:07:14,270 --> 01:07:11,520
um identifying that it is speculation so

1272
01:07:16,069 --> 01:07:14,280
that it can be done more freely without

1273
01:07:17,569 --> 01:07:16,079
um well I mean it's an interesting thing

1274
01:07:19,309 --> 01:07:17,579
you can always taint someone's

1275
01:07:20,930 --> 01:07:19,319
perspective if you speculate too far but

1276
01:07:22,210 --> 01:07:20,940
I think he does it right if you're going

1277
01:07:24,650 --> 01:07:22,220
to speculate

1278
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:24,660
yeah a similar comment here from David

1279
01:07:28,490 --> 01:07:26,400
he was wonderful I especially

1280
01:07:30,410 --> 01:07:28,500
appreciated that he was a new voice

1281
01:07:32,210 --> 01:07:30,420
bringing a new unique perspective to the

1282
01:07:33,529 --> 01:07:32,220
exploration yeah and I also appreciate

1283
01:07:35,450 --> 01:07:33,539
that he's I mean he's been doing this

1284
01:07:37,730 --> 01:07:35,460
for a while like his research in house

1285
01:07:38,690 --> 01:07:37,740
Selena is 20 years old

1286
01:07:40,490 --> 01:07:38,700
um

1287
01:07:43,069 --> 01:07:40,500
and I think that demonstrates a degree

1288
01:07:44,990 --> 01:07:43,079
of commitment and rigor

1289
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:45,000
um that's very exciting to see in the

1290
01:07:48,589 --> 01:07:46,140
subject

1291
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:48,599
absolutely and you know he's got so many

1292
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:50,880
interesting things in his past like for

1293
01:07:53,450 --> 01:07:51,839
example

1294
01:07:57,470 --> 01:07:53,460
um and didn't even touch on this today

1295
01:07:59,690 --> 01:07:57,480
but in 1996 after he went to this

1296
01:08:03,470 --> 01:07:59,700
conference in 1994 got more interested

1297
01:08:04,930 --> 01:08:03,480
he sent in 96 a large paper to the

1298
01:08:07,450 --> 01:08:04,940
Italian

1299
01:08:09,049 --> 01:08:07,460
Ministry of Defense

1300
01:08:12,049 --> 01:08:09,059
and

1301
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:12,059
um it was all about how to build a

1302
01:08:17,809 --> 01:08:14,400
remote sensor station that could uh

1303
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:17,819
effectively identify UFOs and he

1304
01:08:22,130 --> 01:08:19,920
described the exact process to construct

1305
01:08:24,169 --> 01:08:22,140
that kind of uh thing and that was back

1306
01:08:26,809 --> 01:08:24,179
in 96 he never heard back from the

1307
01:08:29,530 --> 01:08:26,819
ministry of Defense but he's been at

1308
01:08:31,849 --> 01:08:29,540
this project like his whole life like in

1309
01:08:34,010 --> 01:08:31,859
2004 there's a documentary from a

1310
01:08:36,169 --> 01:08:34,020
British TV station with him in it where

1311
01:08:38,209 --> 01:08:36,179
he's talking about I think he's quoted

1312
01:08:40,729 --> 01:08:38,219
as saying something like you know I can

1313
01:08:44,510 --> 01:08:40,739
like prove these things exist I just

1314
01:08:46,010 --> 01:08:44,520
need to find a crazy rich guy right

1315
01:08:47,749 --> 01:08:46,020
someone actually put their money in into

1316
01:08:50,749 --> 01:08:47,759
it yeah and that's what Dr Love

1317
01:08:52,130 --> 01:08:50,759
described is that a billionaire knocked

1318
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:52,140
on his door one day after hearing him

1319
01:08:56,209 --> 01:08:53,759
talk about aliens or reading his book

1320
01:08:59,289 --> 01:08:56,219
and uh you know it's just depends on if

1321
01:09:02,749 --> 01:08:59,299
it lines up and now Dr titirani at least

1322
01:09:04,370 --> 01:09:02,759
indirectly is getting uh his dream his

1323
01:09:08,150 --> 01:09:04,380
you know lifelong professional dream

1324
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:09,709
yeah

1325
01:09:13,729 --> 01:09:12,480
um oh sorry go ahead Lewis

1326
01:09:17,090 --> 01:09:13,739
um something you've raised before

1327
01:09:19,370 --> 01:09:17,100
Campbell is um that maybe the Galileo

1328
01:09:22,849 --> 01:09:19,380
project might be placing too much

1329
01:09:26,930 --> 01:09:22,859
emphasis on visual confirmation

1330
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:26,940
uh whereas what you really want is a

1331
01:09:30,769 --> 01:09:29,520
high resolution spectral data

1332
01:09:34,130 --> 01:09:30,779
right

1333
01:09:36,410 --> 01:09:34,140
um yes I guess theodorant is um he would

1334
01:09:38,570 --> 01:09:36,420
be very uh cognizant of that wouldn't he

1335
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:38,580
and I guess he would be bringing that to

1336
01:09:46,130 --> 01:09:41,880
the Galileo project that realization

1337
01:09:49,010 --> 01:09:46,140
yes uh he uh specializes in

1338
01:09:50,809 --> 01:09:49,020
um exactly Imaging with spectral

1339
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,819
um gratings and things like that based

1340
01:09:55,250 --> 01:09:52,560
on his work as an astrophysicist

1341
01:09:57,530 --> 01:09:55,260
especially as a stellar astrophysicist

1342
01:09:59,689 --> 01:09:57,540
he specializes in uh yeah I'm serving

1343
01:10:01,250 --> 01:09:59,699
stars and that's how they uh assess the

1344
01:10:03,290 --> 01:10:01,260
different characteristics of stars

1345
01:10:04,970 --> 01:10:03,300
through this exact process it's

1346
01:10:06,290 --> 01:10:04,980
unfortunate we didn't get into it more I

1347
01:10:08,030 --> 01:10:06,300
mean we've taught all the subjects we

1348
01:10:10,130 --> 01:10:08,040
did touch on I don't think I would uh

1349
01:10:11,209 --> 01:10:10,140
swap any out but um it's just a

1350
01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:11,219
testament to how much stuff he's

1351
01:10:16,010 --> 01:10:12,780
involved with that we didn't even touch

1352
01:10:17,930 --> 01:10:16,020
on the details of his uh Spectra uh work

1353
01:10:20,990 --> 01:10:17,940
although one of his blog posts I think

1354
01:10:24,430 --> 01:10:21,000
four or five back I'm pretty sure it's

1355
01:10:27,229 --> 01:10:24,440
like literally titled like uh UFOs and

1356
01:10:28,850 --> 01:10:27,239
spectroscopy so he gets into the details

1357
01:10:29,870 --> 01:10:28,860
there very effectively on his blog on

1358
01:10:32,870 --> 01:10:29,880
his website

1359
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:32,880
uh-huh what did you uh yeah Luis what

1360
01:10:37,790 --> 01:10:35,760
what was your favorite uh sort of thing

1361
01:10:39,530 --> 01:10:37,800
that Dr tutorani mentioned was there

1362
01:10:45,770 --> 01:10:39,540
anything that stood out to you

1363
01:10:51,890 --> 01:10:49,370
I'm interested in the energy levels

1364
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:51,900
sorry my maintenance keeps breaking up a

1365
01:10:56,270 --> 01:10:52,560
bit

1366
01:10:59,709 --> 01:10:56,280
um the the energy um calculation aspect

1367
01:11:01,250 --> 01:10:59,719
based on distance and uh

1368
01:11:03,130 --> 01:11:01,260
luminosity

1369
01:11:06,410 --> 01:11:03,140
you know there's always an issue about

1370
01:11:08,810 --> 01:11:06,420
if it's just eyewitness reports then how

1371
01:11:10,850 --> 01:11:08,820
objective is that but if you can

1372
01:11:12,050 --> 01:11:10,860
you know at least film something then

1373
01:11:14,570 --> 01:11:12,060
you might be able to get a more

1374
01:11:17,570 --> 01:11:14,580
objective um measurement of the energies

1375
01:11:19,790 --> 01:11:17,580
involved so I think that's really key I

1376
01:11:22,370 --> 01:11:19,800
do Wonder though whether if you can't

1377
01:11:24,649 --> 01:11:22,380
propose a mechanism

1378
01:11:27,709 --> 01:11:24,659
for something like um how meaningful is

1379
01:11:32,330 --> 01:11:30,050
yes and uh his his discussion of energy

1380
01:11:33,410 --> 01:11:32,340
is exactly as you're saying it's based

1381
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:33,420
off of

1382
01:11:38,930 --> 01:11:36,420
um interpreting the uh

1383
01:11:41,350 --> 01:11:38,940
distance to the object from having

1384
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,360
multiple observation posts and then

1385
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:44,159
photographing it with a particular kinds

1386
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,239
of film and uh so uh yeah I think you

1387
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,640
know it provides something it's not

1388
01:11:55,070 --> 01:11:53,280
anything concrete uh and this is the

1389
01:11:56,709 --> 01:11:55,080
kind of thing that is published in the

1390
01:12:00,590 --> 01:11:56,719
Journal of scientific exploration

1391
01:12:02,930 --> 01:12:00,600
founded by Peter stirock I believe at

1392
01:12:04,729 --> 01:12:02,940
Stanford in order to actually publish

1393
01:12:07,850 --> 01:12:04,739
things that are sort of like

1394
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:07,860
not a hundred percent solid um and so

1395
01:12:12,169 --> 01:12:10,020
you know Dr Valley did something very

1396
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:12,179
similar back in the early 90s he had a

1397
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:13,679
paper published in the Journal of

1398
01:12:18,050 --> 01:12:15,420
scientific exploration that details I

1399
01:12:19,490 --> 01:12:18,060
think five UFO cases and estimating

1400
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:19,500
their power levels based on the

1401
01:12:23,390 --> 01:12:21,360
Luminosity so it's something that's been

1402
01:12:25,370 --> 01:12:23,400
done for quite some time and uh

1403
01:12:27,530 --> 01:12:25,380
obviously since you know UFOs haven't

1404
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:27,540
been uh proven to this point it has

1405
01:12:32,270 --> 01:12:30,360
limited value but maybe tells us

1406
01:12:33,709 --> 01:12:32,280
something

1407
01:12:36,050 --> 01:12:33,719
um Leah like what was your favorite uh

1408
01:12:37,850 --> 01:12:36,060
thing that Dr cheater

1409
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:37,860
you know um the

1410
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:39,840
Vines I was go I was super excited when

1411
01:12:46,430 --> 01:12:44,510
want immunization emergent

1412
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:46,440
self-organization and its relationship

1413
01:12:50,450 --> 01:12:48,000
to consciousness

1414
01:12:52,430 --> 01:12:50,460
I very much appreciated him digging into

1415
01:12:53,330 --> 01:12:52,440
bone and

1416
01:12:56,090 --> 01:12:53,340
um

1417
01:13:00,110 --> 01:12:56,100
I think Penrose as well in his

1418
01:13:03,050 --> 01:13:00,120
discussion but I also wrote down

1419
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:03,060
um a quote from him about how anomalies

1420
01:13:08,030 --> 01:13:04,980
are an alarm clock to look at other

1421
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:08,040
parts of reality and I love that right

1422
01:13:14,930 --> 01:13:11,520
like I love this idea that

1423
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:14,940
rather than glossing over outlier

1424
01:13:23,510 --> 01:13:19,860
data or phenomena instead he reframes it

1425
01:13:26,810 --> 01:13:23,520
as an indication that there is something

1426
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:26,820
to explore and to investigate

1427
01:13:32,930 --> 01:13:30,719
and he struck me very much uh Campbell

1428
01:13:34,850 --> 01:13:32,940
you had described him as like a rogue

1429
01:13:37,970 --> 01:13:34,860
scientist and he very much struck me as

1430
01:13:40,209 --> 01:13:37,980
that as kind of possessing this almost

1431
01:13:44,510 --> 01:13:40,219
golden age

1432
01:13:46,669 --> 01:13:44,520
curiosity without having either a

1433
01:13:48,590 --> 01:13:46,679
teleology about his research and

1434
01:13:49,310 --> 01:13:48,600
findings

1435
01:13:52,430 --> 01:13:49,320
um

1436
01:13:56,330 --> 01:13:52,440
and being driven

1437
01:13:57,169 --> 01:13:56,340
out of I would say pure

1438
01:13:59,930 --> 01:13:57,179
um

1439
01:14:02,450 --> 01:13:59,940
desire for scientific inquiry rather

1440
01:14:04,430 --> 01:14:02,460
than orienting itself towards a desired

1441
01:14:05,930 --> 01:14:04,440
outcome or

1442
01:14:09,110 --> 01:14:05,940
um

1443
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,120
Theory so I was very very impressed I

1444
01:14:13,790 --> 01:14:11,280
think think in his response around

1445
01:14:15,530 --> 01:14:13,800
scientific methodology

1446
01:14:18,290 --> 01:14:15,540
it's something that I've found very

1447
01:14:20,649 --> 01:14:18,300
inspiring about Dr Tita Ronnie and when

1448
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:20,659
I first found out about his work

1449
01:14:27,830 --> 01:14:24,960
in May of last year 2021 I was so

1450
01:14:29,830 --> 01:14:27,840
shocked that he wasn't better known on

1451
01:14:32,209 --> 01:14:29,840
this side of the Atlantic Ocean

1452
01:14:34,669 --> 01:14:32,219
considering the amount that he's done on

1453
01:14:37,370 --> 01:14:34,679
this subject even to the point of

1454
01:14:41,149 --> 01:14:37,380
ultimately addressing the European

1455
01:14:43,490 --> 01:14:41,159
Parliament on the subject of UFOs in if

1456
01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:43,500
I remember correctly 2010

1457
01:14:50,209 --> 01:14:46,199
um so like he's a very notable figure in

1458
01:14:54,290 --> 01:14:50,219
the UFO community in many respects and

1459
01:14:58,310 --> 01:14:54,300
uh I mean even 2014 he was recruited by

1460
01:15:00,110 --> 01:14:58,320
uh Leslie Kane and Chris Mellon as they

1461
01:15:03,709 --> 01:15:00,120
were on the board of directors of the

1462
01:15:05,570 --> 01:15:03,719
UFO data project his paper is still on

1463
01:15:08,510 --> 01:15:05,580
there as their technical paper and he's

1464
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:08,520
their lead scientist to get data to

1465
01:15:16,189 --> 01:15:11,760
verify the UFOs exist so um

1466
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:16,199
his uh like I feel like his sort of like

1467
01:15:19,189 --> 01:15:17,760
uh the way that he approaches the

1468
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:19,199
subject I think would have a lot of

1469
01:15:23,090 --> 01:15:21,360
appeal if people knew like that he

1470
01:15:24,590 --> 01:15:23,100
existed essentially and it's blown my

1471
01:15:26,209 --> 01:15:24,600
mind over and over again that people

1472
01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:26,219
don't really know that he does exist and

1473
01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:27,960
he's just been in the background for so

1474
01:15:33,350 --> 01:15:30,780
long uh I feel like he might have a

1475
01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:33,360
moment at some point uh soon on this

1476
01:15:37,010 --> 01:15:34,860
side of the Atlantic especially with the

1477
01:15:38,270 --> 01:15:37,020
Galileo project uh sort of ramping up

1478
01:15:40,910 --> 01:15:38,280
though

1479
01:15:42,350 --> 01:15:40,920
but there are so many things that uh we

1480
01:15:44,330 --> 01:15:42,360
could have talked to him about that we

1481
01:15:45,890 --> 01:15:44,340
just didn't have time to so maybe we can

1482
01:15:47,870 --> 01:15:45,900
have him back sometime

1483
01:15:50,090 --> 01:15:47,880
you know for sure I I would have loved

1484
01:15:52,610 --> 01:15:50,100
to dig into the Galileo project less

1485
01:15:55,850 --> 01:15:52,620
about the specific work he's doing and

1486
01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:55,860
more about his thoughts on what would

1487
01:15:59,149 --> 01:15:57,840
make the project a success like what

1488
01:16:03,770 --> 01:15:59,159
does he Envision this project

1489
01:16:07,570 --> 01:16:03,780
accomplishing or contributing and

1490
01:16:11,750 --> 01:16:07,580
how he sees it moving the subject

1491
01:16:14,990 --> 01:16:11,760
forward and increasingly legitimizing it

1492
01:16:17,930 --> 01:16:15,000
for a scientific inquiry

1493
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:17,940
well as as Louise said actually uh it's

1494
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:21,199
a really uh interesting point like

1495
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:24,719
when the experience on the ground has

1496
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:26,640
shown him that the Spectra are what

1497
01:16:31,490 --> 01:16:29,040
really matter and what we've seen from

1498
01:16:33,709 --> 01:16:31,500
uh you know natural science or Sciences

1499
01:16:35,450 --> 01:16:33,719
like proving uh sort of like

1500
01:16:38,870 --> 01:16:35,460
Breakthrough science with the ball

1501
01:16:41,090 --> 01:16:38,880
lightning in 2014 and Spectra and then

1502
01:16:42,410 --> 01:16:41,100
um Dr Loeb has very heavily emphasized

1503
01:16:44,209 --> 01:16:42,420
the optical

1504
01:16:46,310 --> 01:16:44,219
um and uh this point that Louise made

1505
01:16:49,310 --> 01:16:46,320
that maybe they're over emphasizing the

1506
01:16:51,410 --> 01:16:49,320
optical and uh the like just the

1507
01:16:54,490 --> 01:16:51,420
philosophy of it it is very interesting

1508
01:16:57,530 --> 01:16:54,500
it's like is it primarily

1509
01:16:58,970 --> 01:16:57,540
to just make content that you can raise

1510
01:17:00,350 --> 01:16:58,980
more money with like that's a very

1511
01:17:01,729 --> 01:17:00,360
negative way of looking at it and I

1512
01:17:04,130 --> 01:17:01,739
don't think that's necessarily the case

1513
01:17:05,870 --> 01:17:04,140
but but if they prove the UFOs are a

1514
01:17:07,970 --> 01:17:05,880
natural phenomena uh which is something

1515
01:17:11,870 --> 01:17:07,980
that Dr Loeb has also multiple times uh

1516
01:17:13,850 --> 01:17:11,880
hinted at in multiple interviews uh then

1517
01:17:15,410 --> 01:17:13,860
the monies maybe would at least

1518
01:17:18,410 --> 01:17:15,420
dramatically reduce from the public

1519
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:20,330
and then what would they do okay because

1520
01:17:24,050 --> 01:17:22,320
they like he has huge Ambitions like he

1521
01:17:27,410 --> 01:17:24,060
wants to send one of those

1522
01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:27,420
um postcard sized uh robotic probes all

1523
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:29,940
the way over to Proxima Centauri using a

1524
01:17:34,010 --> 01:17:31,199
laser

1525
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,020
um as the energy source so like he's got

1526
01:17:38,450 --> 01:17:36,000
he's got a few billion dollars to go on

1527
01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:42,350
right

1528
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:45,229
or other of you uh what do you what do

1529
01:17:51,169 --> 01:17:47,280
you guys how do you interpret the delay

1530
01:17:52,970 --> 01:17:51,179
on this major report uh do you think it

1531
01:17:55,310 --> 01:17:52,980
was intentional waiting out the midterm

1532
01:17:57,890 --> 01:17:55,320
oh the government report yes yes the

1533
01:18:00,890 --> 01:17:57,900
fact that it's still not out

1534
01:18:02,990 --> 01:18:00,900
um so go ahead Lewis what's your

1535
01:18:03,709 --> 01:18:03,000
perspective not oh no you go ahead go

1536
01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:03,719
ahead

1537
01:18:08,810 --> 01:18:07,260
I I was I was just going to say uh I

1538
01:18:11,910 --> 01:18:08,820
think it's just another case of

1539
01:18:15,470 --> 01:18:11,920
government uh red tape

1540
01:18:27,050 --> 01:18:17,689
I

1541
01:18:28,669 --> 01:18:27,060
me most likely is either that it's

1542
01:18:30,530 --> 01:18:28,679
straight up late or that it's been

1543
01:18:31,850 --> 01:18:30,540
delivered in some classified format and

1544
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:31,860
has yet to go through any kind of

1545
01:18:37,850 --> 01:18:34,980
reduction for public consumption

1546
01:18:39,590 --> 01:18:37,860
um that seems to me very on brand for

1547
01:18:42,110 --> 01:18:39,600
the federal government

1548
01:18:44,030 --> 01:18:42,120
um but I

1549
01:18:47,570 --> 01:18:44,040
have also

1550
01:18:49,910 --> 01:18:47,580
given the elections that occurred

1551
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:49,920
yesterday in the U.S I I think there was

1552
01:18:57,729 --> 01:18:53,760
this maybe Community perception that the

1553
01:19:01,729 --> 01:18:57,739
report may be delayed or somehow

1554
01:19:04,250 --> 01:19:01,739
manipulated in order to influence the

1555
01:19:06,890 --> 01:19:04,260
electoral process right like by

1556
01:19:09,649 --> 01:19:06,900
Distributing this report it would have

1557
01:19:11,149 --> 01:19:09,659
an outsize effect on who people vote for

1558
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:11,159
Etc

1559
01:19:16,270 --> 01:19:14,159
and this feels

1560
01:19:19,850 --> 01:19:16,280
to me

1561
01:19:24,350 --> 01:19:19,860
like assigning an outsize importance on

1562
01:19:27,290 --> 01:19:24,360
the subject of UFOs and UAP to the

1563
01:19:29,090 --> 01:19:27,300
popular imagination

1564
01:19:31,729 --> 01:19:29,100
um put put another way I don't think

1565
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:31,739
that this is a one

1566
01:19:37,610 --> 01:19:35,040
like a one issue

1567
01:19:39,290 --> 01:19:37,620
determinant and how people vote or who

1568
01:19:42,110 --> 01:19:39,300
they support

1569
01:19:44,290 --> 01:19:42,120
um so I am extremely hesitant to

1570
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:44,300
attribute its delay

1571
01:19:50,450 --> 01:19:48,239
to the midterm elections or concerns

1572
01:19:52,250 --> 01:19:50,460
about interfering in them by delivering

1573
01:19:53,090 --> 01:19:52,260
this report

1574
01:19:57,950 --> 01:19:53,100
um

1575
01:20:02,149 --> 01:20:00,590
that makes sense that that's sort of uh

1576
01:20:05,270 --> 01:20:02,159
I think that's pretty much my read too

1577
01:20:07,550 --> 01:20:05,280
it's like the interpretation that would

1578
01:20:08,990 --> 01:20:07,560
be sort of saying like oh it's been

1579
01:20:10,970 --> 01:20:09,000
delayed because they're afraid of the

1580
01:20:12,649 --> 01:20:10,980
Fallout and stuff like that that's

1581
01:20:15,410 --> 01:20:12,659
certainly like in my view the least

1582
01:20:17,090 --> 01:20:15,420
likely uh explanation I mean it's always

1583
01:20:18,910 --> 01:20:17,100
of course possible that maybe this is

1584
01:20:21,169 --> 01:20:18,920
the report that's going to say uh

1585
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,179
extraterrestrials are here finally but

1586
01:20:25,010 --> 01:20:23,040
uh yeah that's I don't think that's at

1587
01:20:28,850 --> 01:20:25,020
the top of the list so it pro it

1588
01:20:31,010 --> 01:20:28,860
probably is some level of inefficiency

1589
01:20:34,310 --> 01:20:31,020
um I I've wondered myself like because

1590
01:20:36,410 --> 01:20:34,320
in the internal documents uh about

1591
01:20:38,090 --> 01:20:36,420
National Security and stuff they they do

1592
01:20:39,950 --> 01:20:38,100
heavily uh

1593
01:20:42,770 --> 01:20:39,960
say that they don't really want people

1594
01:20:44,090 --> 01:20:42,780
sort of focusing on UFOs it's seen as a

1595
01:20:47,570 --> 01:20:44,100
little bit of a

1596
01:20:50,090 --> 01:20:47,580
you know a a topic that can be exploited

1597
01:20:51,830 --> 01:20:50,100
by Foreign actors so

1598
01:20:54,169 --> 01:20:51,840
um you know it's like makes me wonder

1599
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:54,179
like if they are gonna try to sort of

1600
01:20:58,610 --> 01:20:56,699
ramp down public interest this this

1601
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:58,620
would be consistent with that I think

1602
01:21:02,689 --> 01:21:00,480
like you know it's like there's not a

1603
01:21:04,610 --> 01:21:02,699
huge it's like now it's been delayed the

1604
01:21:06,410 --> 01:21:04,620
sort of news was like there were a bunch

1605
01:21:08,270 --> 01:21:06,420
of news stories leading up to it now

1606
01:21:10,370 --> 01:21:08,280
people maybe won't be care maybe it'll

1607
01:21:11,870 --> 01:21:10,380
be coming out on a Friday evening like

1608
01:21:13,729 --> 01:21:11,880
they like to do

1609
01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:13,739
yeah I mean we saw

1610
01:21:20,689 --> 01:21:18,480
we've witnessed the same

1611
01:21:22,729 --> 01:21:20,699
repeated Dynamic within the community

1612
01:21:26,330 --> 01:21:22,739
around any release of this information

1613
01:21:29,090 --> 01:21:26,340
where there's this Collective

1614
01:21:31,490 --> 01:21:29,100
eager anticipation

1615
01:21:33,770 --> 01:21:31,500
various and Sundries shadowy figures

1616
01:21:35,450 --> 01:21:33,780
from the anonymous depths of Twitter

1617
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:35,460
making claims about what may be

1618
01:21:41,149 --> 01:21:38,040
contained in this report nothing

1619
01:21:43,550 --> 01:21:41,159
subsequently comes up which for the True

1620
01:21:45,830 --> 01:21:43,560
Believers is proof positive that voices

1621
01:21:48,590 --> 01:21:45,840
are being repressed if something does

1622
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:48,600
come out whatever is delivered

1623
01:21:54,110 --> 01:21:51,360
will fail no matter what no matter what

1624
01:21:58,070 --> 01:21:54,120
the report says it will inevitably fail

1625
01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:58,080
to satiate the collective Community

1626
01:22:00,890 --> 01:21:58,800
um

1627
01:22:03,410 --> 01:22:00,900
and

1628
01:22:10,970 --> 01:22:03,420
what

1629
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:10,980
predictability of this cycle within the

1630
01:22:16,370 --> 01:22:12,780
community in general

1631
01:22:20,450 --> 01:22:16,380
and then the knock-on effect that it has

1632
01:22:22,750 --> 01:22:20,460
on the community where

1633
01:22:26,209 --> 01:22:22,760
there seems to be no meaningful

1634
01:22:28,010 --> 01:22:26,219
self-reflection on the promises that

1635
01:22:31,010 --> 01:22:28,020
community members make about this report

1636
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,020
that fail to come to pass right like no

1637
01:22:34,610 --> 01:22:32,880
matter what individuals say about this

1638
01:22:36,590 --> 01:22:34,620
report promising it will be delivered

1639
01:22:39,709 --> 01:22:36,600
saying they have secret information or

1640
01:22:41,630 --> 01:22:39,719
access to to Hidden sources then if that

1641
01:22:44,270 --> 01:22:41,640
fails to materialize there's no kind of

1642
01:22:45,950 --> 01:22:44,280
collective pushback or interrogation of

1643
01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:45,960
why that may be

1644
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:46,560
um

1645
01:22:50,689 --> 01:22:48,840
and so I think on a personal level

1646
01:22:53,149 --> 01:22:50,699
watching this Dynamic constantly play

1647
01:22:55,070 --> 01:22:53,159
out is extremely telling and also

1648
01:22:57,709 --> 01:22:55,080
obviously super frustrating particularly

1649
01:22:59,810 --> 01:22:57,719
as someone who beats the drum of like

1650
01:23:02,209 --> 01:22:59,820
accountability and integrity and

1651
01:23:04,970 --> 01:23:02,219
standards of evidence all the time

1652
01:23:08,290 --> 01:23:04,980
um but I also think it collectively

1653
01:23:11,450 --> 01:23:08,300
feeds this community

1654
01:23:13,250 --> 01:23:11,460
belief that because people aren't nice

1655
01:23:15,050 --> 01:23:13,260
on UFO Twitter the government's

1656
01:23:18,350 --> 01:23:15,060
withholding disclosure so if we were

1657
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:18,360
just collectively nicer to any number of

1658
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:20,280
anonymous Twitter accounts we would know

1659
01:23:22,970 --> 01:23:22,080
what's going on by now and I think that

1660
01:23:27,649 --> 01:23:22,980
that's

1661
01:23:30,350 --> 01:23:27,659
such a a strange and almost infantile

1662
01:23:32,030 --> 01:23:30,360
um assessment on the Dynamics we're

1663
01:23:35,090 --> 01:23:32,040
watching play out

1664
01:23:36,590 --> 01:23:35,100
it feels like religious thinking and uh

1665
01:23:38,149 --> 01:23:36,600
you know and religious thinking is

1666
01:23:41,270 --> 01:23:38,159
rooted in a lot of that stuff like

1667
01:23:43,370 --> 01:23:41,280
hierarchy and punishment for being bad

1668
01:23:45,950 --> 01:23:43,380
and things like that so I definitely am

1669
01:23:47,930 --> 01:23:45,960
getting uh you know I feel what you're

1670
01:23:50,030 --> 01:23:47,940
saying

1671
01:23:51,410 --> 01:23:50,040
yeah okay this is this is another yeah

1672
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:51,420
another change of subject right we have

1673
01:23:55,850 --> 01:23:53,280
James Fox's documentary

1674
01:23:57,950 --> 01:23:55,860
um moment moment of contact I think

1675
01:24:00,290 --> 01:23:57,960
um a question coming in any thoughts

1676
01:24:02,270 --> 01:24:00,300
about the alleged Georgina Alien video

1677
01:24:04,370 --> 01:24:02,280
supposedly to be released soon right

1678
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:04,380
again it's always soon

1679
01:24:09,470 --> 01:24:07,260
um yeah so what last I heard is there

1680
01:24:11,330 --> 01:24:09,480
was an offer out from James Fox the

1681
01:24:14,030 --> 01:24:11,340
director of this new film

1682
01:24:15,770 --> 01:24:14,040
um for two hundred thousand dollars for

1683
01:24:18,290 --> 01:24:15,780
an individual who purportedly has video

1684
01:24:20,090 --> 01:24:18,300
evidence of a creature recovered from

1685
01:24:22,729 --> 01:24:20,100
this event

1686
01:24:24,709 --> 01:24:22,739
um I

1687
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:24,719
um

1688
01:24:29,050 --> 01:24:26,760
probably put this

1689
01:24:31,250 --> 01:24:29,060
they should be offering a bounty of

1690
01:24:33,770 --> 01:24:31,260
hundreds of millions perhaps even

1691
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:33,780
billions of dollars for this kind of

1692
01:24:39,770 --> 01:24:37,440
evidence to be factual

1693
01:24:43,729 --> 01:24:39,780
um I would love to see if there is

1694
01:24:47,030 --> 01:24:43,739
factual or even very good evidence of

1695
01:24:49,010 --> 01:24:47,040
this so far the video stills that I have

1696
01:24:51,410 --> 01:24:49,020
seen

1697
01:24:55,130 --> 01:24:51,420
um propagated across the internet have

1698
01:24:58,610 --> 01:24:55,140
largely been taken from let's see 1990s

1699
01:25:01,850 --> 01:24:58,620
alien autopsy videos on Fox screen grabs

1700
01:25:02,689 --> 01:25:01,860
from old X-Files videos or old X-Files

1701
01:25:04,610 --> 01:25:02,699
episodes

1702
01:25:05,570 --> 01:25:04,620
Etc

1703
01:25:08,750 --> 01:25:05,580
um

1704
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:10,729
I would love to be wrong let me put it

1705
01:25:16,370 --> 01:25:13,199
that way I would love to be wrong I I

1706
01:25:18,410 --> 01:25:16,380
will eat crow on a live stream if 200

1707
01:25:19,729 --> 01:25:18,420
000 turns up an actual video of an alien

1708
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:19,739
I would know I would love nothing more

1709
01:25:23,530 --> 01:25:21,960
than to be wrong about this but I don't

1710
01:25:25,729 --> 01:25:23,540
think it's gonna happen

1711
01:25:28,729 --> 01:25:25,739
there's my hot take what about you

1712
01:25:30,649 --> 01:25:28,739
Campbell what about you Lewis

1713
01:25:32,270 --> 01:25:30,659
yeah Louise uh yeah you start with it

1714
01:25:36,169 --> 01:25:32,280
what do you think of that

1715
01:25:39,950 --> 01:25:36,179
uh uh I'll believe it when I see it over

1716
01:25:43,610 --> 01:25:39,960
to you fair enough yeah I mean yeah

1717
01:25:45,470 --> 01:25:43,620
because I I saw the Fallout on Reddit of

1718
01:25:47,630 --> 01:25:45,480
um James Fox I can't remember what it

1719
01:25:51,050 --> 01:25:47,640
was maybe Fox News or something when he

1720
01:25:52,130 --> 01:25:51,060
did like an A on Reddit too okay I

1721
01:25:54,110 --> 01:25:52,140
didn't see that

1722
01:25:54,890 --> 01:25:54,120
it went about as well as you actually it

1723
01:26:00,110 --> 01:25:54,900
went

1724
01:26:01,850 --> 01:26:00,120
expect but it basically was

1725
01:26:04,850 --> 01:26:01,860
people asking over and over do you have

1726
01:26:06,770 --> 01:26:04,860
proof is there a video of the purported

1727
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:06,780
alien in your documentary

1728
01:26:11,330 --> 01:26:10,080
and he kind of evasively answered those

1729
01:26:14,510 --> 01:26:11,340
questions

1730
01:26:16,370 --> 01:26:14,520
and the collective the unwashed masses

1731
01:26:18,890 --> 01:26:16,380
of Reddit were basically like okay you

1732
01:26:21,290 --> 01:26:18,900
don't have anything next what's next

1733
01:26:23,810 --> 01:26:21,300
what you know that's uh something

1734
01:26:25,729 --> 01:26:23,820
interesting too like Reddit like the UFO

1735
01:26:28,850 --> 01:26:25,739
Community like they there is like a

1736
01:26:31,490 --> 01:26:28,860
heavy uh belief but they they also have

1737
01:26:34,610 --> 01:26:31,500
a bit more of a mixing with the um the

1738
01:26:36,649 --> 01:26:34,620
skeptical or critical uh uh arguments do

1739
01:26:40,430 --> 01:26:36,659
make their way into the the conversation

1740
01:26:43,189 --> 01:26:40,440
I'd argue more so uh at least

1741
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:43,199
um yeah and so James Fox exactly like so

1742
01:26:47,689 --> 01:26:44,880
he made that claim in that one interview

1743
01:26:49,490 --> 01:26:47,699
that seemed explosive he made like the

1744
01:26:52,070 --> 01:26:49,500
language he used initially was something

1745
01:26:54,649 --> 01:26:52,080
that sounded like certain

1746
01:26:55,970 --> 01:26:54,659
um and then he just has since then and a

1747
01:26:57,350 --> 01:26:55,980
bunch of people stood up and said like

1748
01:26:59,090 --> 01:26:57,360
you know this guy's legit this guy's

1749
01:27:01,010 --> 01:26:59,100
legit and then since then he's been

1750
01:27:03,050 --> 01:27:01,020
walking it back walking it back

1751
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:03,060
so it doesn't look good looks like it

1752
01:27:08,750 --> 01:27:04,800
was promotional maybe he got caught up

1753
01:27:10,729 --> 01:27:08,760
in the moment and spoke to uh broadly or

1754
01:27:13,370 --> 01:27:10,739
like you know like you're on TV he

1755
01:27:15,950 --> 01:27:13,380
doesn't do huge interviews frequently

1756
01:27:17,330 --> 01:27:15,960
like uh on mainstream news so it makes

1757
01:27:19,189 --> 01:27:17,340
sense if he got a little excited and

1758
01:27:21,590 --> 01:27:19,199
just used us a word that's

1759
01:27:23,450 --> 01:27:21,600
definitionally incorrect so I'm not

1760
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:23,460
expecting anything from that did you

1761
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:25,199
guys notice that Dr titirani

1762
01:27:31,310 --> 01:27:28,080
specifically mentioned this uh case

1763
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:31,320
though uh earlier in the interview I

1764
01:27:36,470 --> 01:27:35,280
he used it as the example of um and this

1765
01:27:37,729 --> 01:27:36,480
is what I find so funny about his stuff

1766
01:27:40,010 --> 01:27:37,739
right he makes this he's like well the

1767
01:27:41,870 --> 01:27:40,020
triangle seem to be mechanical however

1768
01:27:44,330 --> 01:27:41,880
in Brazil when they're shooting laser

1769
01:27:46,129 --> 01:27:44,340
beams uh you know I see a plausible

1770
01:27:48,709 --> 01:27:46,139
natural mechanism through Stellar

1771
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:48,719
physics and it's like that one sounds

1772
01:27:53,689 --> 01:27:50,639
crazier to me than the triangle but

1773
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:53,699
maybe like what yes did you pick that up

1774
01:27:58,910 --> 01:27:56,400
uh Leah what did you think of that I

1775
01:28:00,350 --> 01:27:58,920
picked that up and I also see when he

1776
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:00,360
brought that up the other thing it

1777
01:28:04,370 --> 01:28:02,880
connects to in my mind is the dangers of

1778
01:28:05,930 --> 01:28:04,380
encountering these kinds of experiences

1779
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:05,940
or having these experiences and he

1780
01:28:10,669 --> 01:28:07,260
touched on this we've touched on this

1781
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:10,679
too either bodily harm or death or

1782
01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:15,360
physical danger associated with this and

1783
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:18,420
it feels like in popular conversation

1784
01:28:23,350 --> 01:28:20,280
about this subject that's an element

1785
01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:23,360
that's frequently dismissed or ignored

1786
01:28:30,410 --> 01:28:27,679
but he seemed to take a very

1787
01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:30,420
genuine perspective that this is a

1788
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:33,360
potentially very dangerous circumstance

1789
01:28:39,290 --> 01:28:35,520
to find oneself in

1790
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:39,300
and that and I don't just means the

1791
01:28:43,189 --> 01:28:41,040
psychosocial set I mean like the

1792
01:28:44,149 --> 01:28:43,199
physical danger associated with these

1793
01:28:45,169 --> 01:28:44,159
events

1794
01:28:47,209 --> 01:28:45,179
um

1795
01:28:49,610 --> 01:28:47,219
so I thought that was very interesting

1796
01:28:52,129 --> 01:28:49,620
when he brought that up

1797
01:28:55,250 --> 01:28:52,139
was he referring to the Polaris incident

1798
01:28:56,570 --> 01:28:55,260
or the vagina sighting okay you're right

1799
01:28:59,330 --> 01:28:56,580
I mixed it up he was talking about

1800
01:29:01,669 --> 01:28:59,340
claras yes yeah okay but yeah but still

1801
01:29:03,470 --> 01:29:01,679
out of out of Brazil I think right it

1802
01:29:05,990 --> 01:29:03,480
doesn't I think really talks about this

1803
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:06,000
event yeah yeah right there's actually

1804
01:29:11,450 --> 01:29:09,600
you know um that the kolara's case uh I

1805
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:11,460
just don't find it plausible that if it

1806
01:29:17,629 --> 01:29:15,120
was uh an intelligence

1807
01:29:19,310 --> 01:29:17,639
that they would um

1808
01:29:23,689 --> 01:29:19,320
should be shooting people with um

1809
01:29:26,030 --> 01:29:23,699
whatever lasers or plasmas and

1810
01:29:28,129 --> 01:29:26,040
they would be

1811
01:29:30,050 --> 01:29:28,139
like what's the point of doing that and

1812
01:29:32,149 --> 01:29:30,060
secondly

1813
01:29:35,149 --> 01:29:32,159
um there was also a

1814
01:29:38,450 --> 01:29:35,159
a claim within that um you know broader

1815
01:29:41,689 --> 01:29:38,460
incident that um a guy was being

1816
01:29:44,510 --> 01:29:41,699
you know drawn up into the UFO and he

1817
01:29:46,850 --> 01:29:44,520
held onto a tree and then like the UFO

1818
01:29:49,490 --> 01:29:46,860
gave up

1819
01:29:51,590 --> 01:29:49,500
um stuff like that just really speaks to

1820
01:29:53,750 --> 01:29:51,600
this being kind of those interpretations

1821
01:29:55,490 --> 01:29:53,760
like these things are attacking us or

1822
01:29:58,669 --> 01:29:55,500
they're trying to kidnap us those are

1823
01:30:00,110 --> 01:29:58,679
human interpretations and um

1824
01:30:01,790 --> 01:30:00,120
I think there was something might have

1825
01:30:04,189 --> 01:30:01,800
been something else going on

1826
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,199
uh some natural phenomena but I just

1827
01:30:10,490 --> 01:30:06,000
don't see like aliens

1828
01:30:16,910 --> 01:30:13,910
it's a good point like the behaviors are

1829
01:30:18,890 --> 01:30:16,920
very hard to uh understand or the

1830
01:30:21,950 --> 01:30:18,900
Motions I guess because Behavior Uh

1831
01:30:24,590 --> 01:30:21,960
implies uh intent in some ways perhaps

1832
01:30:26,750 --> 01:30:24,600
uh you know living thing

1833
01:30:30,350 --> 01:30:26,760
um and it's like like Dr theodorani has

1834
01:30:32,870 --> 01:30:30,360
mentioned that uh the the Motions appear

1835
01:30:34,430 --> 01:30:32,880
to ex at least based on some

1836
01:30:37,790 --> 01:30:34,440
descriptions exceed what you would

1837
01:30:39,530 --> 01:30:37,800
expect from purely electrostatics which

1838
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:39,540
is uh something that he then finds

1839
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,280
interesting from this speculative

1840
01:30:43,729 --> 01:30:42,960
perspective of maybe there's some kind

1841
01:30:49,250 --> 01:30:43,739
of

1842
01:30:52,010 --> 01:30:49,260
within through the self-organizing

1843
01:30:53,570 --> 01:30:52,020
mechanism so

1844
01:30:55,490 --> 01:30:53,580
like there seem to be plausible

1845
01:30:58,310 --> 01:30:55,500
sufficient explanations that are purely

1846
01:31:01,209 --> 01:30:58,320
mechanistic and yet people who get very

1847
01:31:03,830 --> 01:31:01,219
heavily involved with them also become

1848
01:31:05,229 --> 01:31:03,840
convinced and from what I can see that

1849
01:31:08,510 --> 01:31:05,239
there is a more

1850
01:31:10,010 --> 01:31:08,520
conscious element to it and uh I find

1851
01:31:13,310 --> 01:31:10,020
that very interesting and I'm not sure

1852
01:31:15,290 --> 01:31:13,320
exactly what that origin is but um

1853
01:31:21,010 --> 01:31:15,300
the physical

1854
01:31:24,410 --> 01:31:21,020
potentially meeting sort of the

1855
01:31:26,629 --> 01:31:24,420
observational uh criteria of like a

1856
01:31:28,550 --> 01:31:26,639
neutron star and a stellar physicist

1857
01:31:31,490 --> 01:31:28,560
being like observationally I think this

1858
01:31:33,709 --> 01:31:31,500
looks like a neutron star and even like

1859
01:31:37,729 --> 01:31:33,719
even like the the beans and like even

1860
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:37,739
the suction upward uh look up the uh

1861
01:31:42,770 --> 01:31:40,560
magnetized frog experiment and you can

1862
01:31:46,129 --> 01:31:42,780
see that applying an electromagnetic

1863
01:31:49,010 --> 01:31:46,139
magnetic field to an object in Earth's

1864
01:31:50,689 --> 01:31:49,020
atmosphere produces a levitation of that

1865
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:50,699
object that looks like anti-gravity

1866
01:31:54,050 --> 01:31:52,320
because electromagnetism can produce

1867
01:31:56,270 --> 01:31:54,060
that kind of effect

1868
01:31:57,709 --> 01:31:56,280
so anyway uh I guess the long story

1869
01:31:59,750 --> 01:31:57,719
short there I'm just saying it's like

1870
01:32:02,330 --> 01:31:59,760
it's pretty fascinating that

1871
01:32:04,310 --> 01:32:02,340
um these things could be natural

1872
01:32:05,930 --> 01:32:04,320
um and we don't know but uh I was really

1873
01:32:08,510 --> 01:32:05,940
happy to hear Tia Dr tutorani explain

1874
01:32:10,129 --> 01:32:08,520
that side of it to us today

1875
01:32:11,689 --> 01:32:10,139
yeah and I think uh Campbell you're

1876
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:11,699
touching on something that I always find

1877
01:32:14,510 --> 01:32:13,199
fascinating at the heart of the subject

1878
01:32:17,330 --> 01:32:14,520
which is

1879
01:32:19,370 --> 01:32:17,340
that this

1880
01:32:23,149 --> 01:32:19,380
is so

1881
01:32:29,450 --> 01:32:25,689
um or experiences

1882
01:32:32,090 --> 01:32:29,460
are trans medium in nature where we talk

1883
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:32,100
about the relationship between observed

1884
01:32:36,410 --> 01:32:34,320
and experienced physical phenomena and

1885
01:32:39,709 --> 01:32:36,420
then these second order effects of

1886
01:32:43,370 --> 01:32:39,719
Consciousness or psychological response

1887
01:32:45,770 --> 01:32:43,380
and how also there's this inclination to

1888
01:32:47,629 --> 01:32:45,780
transpose

1889
01:32:53,270 --> 01:32:47,639
um

1890
01:32:55,729 --> 01:32:53,280
onto these events

1891
01:32:58,810 --> 01:32:55,739
you know like to assign some kind of

1892
01:33:02,270 --> 01:32:58,820
objective or

1893
01:33:05,629 --> 01:33:02,280
goal to particular behaviors that are

1894
01:33:08,110 --> 01:33:05,639
witnessed or experienced

1895
01:33:10,010 --> 01:33:08,120
and I think in turn we almost

1896
01:33:11,629 --> 01:33:10,020
anthropomorphize them

1897
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:11,639
by

1898
01:33:17,950 --> 01:33:16,560
assuming that they must behave based on

1899
01:33:22,310 --> 01:33:17,960
I guess

1900
01:33:25,729 --> 01:33:22,320
incentives or drivers that we as humans

1901
01:33:28,129 --> 01:33:25,739
can relate to instead of being just

1902
01:33:29,870 --> 01:33:28,139
outside of human conception or cognition

1903
01:33:32,149 --> 01:33:29,880
and I'm not even attributing like

1904
01:33:34,750 --> 01:33:32,159
intelligence or Consciousness to these

1905
01:33:36,410 --> 01:33:34,760
events I'm just more thinking about

1906
01:33:37,490 --> 01:33:36,420
how

1907
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:37,500
um

1908
01:33:45,169 --> 01:33:42,560
behavior onto phenomena that we observe

1909
01:33:46,910 --> 01:33:45,179
all the time

1910
01:33:48,890 --> 01:33:46,920
it's an excellent point and it would

1911
01:33:52,610 --> 01:33:48,900
almost be strange if we didn't right

1912
01:33:55,070 --> 01:33:52,620
because human uh history the origin is

1913
01:33:58,490 --> 01:33:55,080
that literally every single thing around

1914
01:34:00,709 --> 01:33:58,500
us had a life Spirit to it even like the

1915
01:34:03,470 --> 01:34:00,719
stones the air the water everything was

1916
01:34:05,689 --> 01:34:03,480
alive and you know we've kind of reduced

1917
01:34:08,390 --> 01:34:05,699
that progressively to this tiny sliver

1918
01:34:11,209 --> 01:34:08,400
of reality that we don't have like the

1919
01:34:13,129 --> 01:34:11,219
ex perfect modern scientific focus on

1920
01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:13,139
yet and that's what theater Dr tutoron

1921
01:34:17,330 --> 01:34:15,659
is like looking at and trying to get at

1922
01:34:18,830 --> 01:34:17,340
the heart of it and that's the thing

1923
01:34:21,649 --> 01:34:18,840
that you pointed out that alarm clock

1924
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:21,659
thing it's like this is where the true

1925
01:34:26,030 --> 01:34:23,760
answer is that there still are out there

1926
01:34:29,030 --> 01:34:26,040
maybe are hiding

1927
01:34:31,910 --> 01:34:29,040
mm-hmm yeah and it also um

1928
01:34:34,550 --> 01:34:31,920
it speaks to like the emergent nature of

1929
01:34:37,970 --> 01:34:34,560
scientific inquiry that that science

1930
01:34:39,709 --> 01:34:37,980
like in I think popular imagination we

1931
01:34:41,450 --> 01:34:39,719
tend to treat science as this closed

1932
01:34:44,270 --> 01:34:41,460
system but the reality is that if done

1933
01:34:46,850 --> 01:34:44,280
properly like science is a framework

1934
01:34:48,530 --> 01:34:46,860
exists as like an emergent process from

1935
01:34:50,450 --> 01:34:48,540
an open dynamic system like it should

1936
01:34:52,930 --> 01:34:50,460
kind of incrementally creep forward and

1937
01:34:58,310 --> 01:34:52,940
expand and how it's used to understand

1938
01:34:59,990 --> 01:34:58,320
or uh interpret events and

1939
01:35:01,490 --> 01:35:00,000
um like like events that are sort of at

1940
01:35:03,229 --> 01:35:01,500
the edge of what we would conventionally

1941
01:35:05,689 --> 01:35:03,239
identify as science like he said these

1942
01:35:06,410 --> 01:35:05,699
anomalous phenomena

1943
01:35:09,050 --> 01:35:06,420
um

1944
01:35:11,390 --> 01:35:09,060
I mean I I keep meaning to read Thomas

1945
01:35:14,030 --> 01:35:11,400
kuhn's book on scientific revolution

1946
01:35:16,610 --> 01:35:14,040
because I feel like at the heart of

1947
01:35:17,990 --> 01:35:16,620
things that's what's so much for me with

1948
01:35:20,149 --> 01:35:18,000
this conversation with these

1949
01:35:21,370 --> 01:35:20,159
conversations are about they're about

1950
01:35:24,229 --> 01:35:21,380
not

1951
01:35:26,450 --> 01:35:24,239
dismissing or denigrating experiences

1952
01:35:28,550 --> 01:35:26,460
and anomalous phenomena so much as

1953
01:35:31,010 --> 01:35:28,560
refactoring the Frameworks and

1954
01:35:33,950 --> 01:35:31,020
methodologies we use to interpret our

1955
01:35:35,870 --> 01:35:33,960
world around us and I think actually

1956
01:35:37,209 --> 01:35:35,880
pursuant to what we were talking about

1957
01:35:40,430 --> 01:35:37,219
around

1958
01:35:42,530 --> 01:35:40,440
the presence like transposing

1959
01:35:45,950 --> 01:35:42,540
Consciousness or intent onto things I

1960
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:45,960
mean the other thing is like we watch to

1961
01:35:49,370 --> 01:35:47,520
me what feels like an increasingly

1962
01:35:51,470 --> 01:35:49,380
emergent

1963
01:35:57,649 --> 01:35:55,910
idea in Consciousness and in areas of

1964
01:36:01,790 --> 01:35:57,659
physics and psychology and also in

1965
01:36:04,490 --> 01:36:01,800
psychedelic studies is uh Pan psychism

1966
01:36:08,209 --> 01:36:04,500
um and pan psychism seems to be in

1967
01:36:12,890 --> 01:36:08,219
gaining increasing legitimacy among some

1968
01:36:14,209 --> 01:36:12,900
of the I would say intellectual

1969
01:36:16,430 --> 01:36:14,219
Towers

1970
01:36:19,790 --> 01:36:16,440
across a number of different disciplines

1971
01:36:20,689 --> 01:36:19,800
and I think also that pan psychism again

1972
01:36:23,090 --> 01:36:20,699
um

1973
01:36:24,649 --> 01:36:23,100
it not only is extremely interesting and

1974
01:36:26,810 --> 01:36:24,659
compelling

1975
01:36:30,350 --> 01:36:26,820
um insofar as treating Consciousness is

1976
01:36:34,010 --> 01:36:30,360
an emergent phenomena but it also for me

1977
01:36:36,709 --> 01:36:34,020
what I think is very interesting is what

1978
01:36:38,570 --> 01:36:36,719
it implies about the uniqueness of

1979
01:36:40,669 --> 01:36:38,580
humanity against the rest of the

1980
01:36:42,110 --> 01:36:40,679
universe because for so long like humans

1981
01:36:43,610 --> 01:36:42,120
have envisioned themselves as being

1982
01:36:46,729 --> 01:36:43,620
unique creatures by virtue of

1983
01:36:47,410 --> 01:36:46,739
Consciousness and this

1984
01:36:51,110 --> 01:36:47,420
um

1985
01:36:53,750 --> 01:36:51,120
inverts that assessment if we start

1986
01:36:55,790 --> 01:36:53,760
seeing Consciousness is is common or

1987
01:36:57,950 --> 01:36:55,800
even Universal

1988
01:37:00,050 --> 01:36:57,960
um suddenly this trait or characteristic

1989
01:37:03,770 --> 01:37:00,060
is no longer

1990
01:37:07,310 --> 01:37:03,780
um a unique Factor uh possessed only by

1991
01:37:13,250 --> 01:37:10,070
yeah it's a very interesting point like

1992
01:37:15,649 --> 01:37:13,260
it it ties into religion so deeply in

1993
01:37:20,629 --> 01:37:15,659
some ways and it is almost like a deeper

1994
01:37:23,030 --> 01:37:20,639
cosmological Point how like

1995
01:37:26,030 --> 01:37:23,040
centering the universe like within each

1996
01:37:29,570 --> 01:37:26,040
individual versus

1997
01:37:31,610 --> 01:37:29,580
an idea that uh Consciousness can be

1998
01:37:35,090 --> 01:37:31,620
sort of a mechanistic emergent

1999
01:37:37,390 --> 01:37:35,100
phenomenon resulting from these natural

2000
01:37:40,250 --> 01:37:37,400
uh essentially

2001
01:37:41,530 --> 01:37:40,260
magnetohydrodynamics like even if if

2002
01:37:43,790 --> 01:37:41,540
there's

2003
01:37:45,950 --> 01:37:43,800
sometimes I wonder when I'm reading this

2004
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:45,960
stuff and it's not my main uh world view

2005
01:37:50,090 --> 01:37:47,760
but it makes me wonder sometimes when I

2006
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:50,100
see how uh plasma replicates a lot of

2007
01:37:54,169 --> 01:37:51,600
these like you know sub cellular

2008
01:37:56,570 --> 01:37:54,179
processes and like DNA it looks like

2009
01:37:58,430 --> 01:37:56,580
similar to plasma under certain

2010
01:38:01,070 --> 01:37:58,440
environmental conditions the way it

2011
01:38:02,450 --> 01:38:01,080
Spirals and self-regulate their um yeah

2012
01:38:04,189 --> 01:38:02,460
cell forms and the replica

2013
01:38:05,629 --> 01:38:04,199
self-replicates and things like that and

2014
01:38:07,430 --> 01:38:05,639
it makes me want it's like is everything

2015
01:38:09,890 --> 01:38:07,440
just like a series of these tiny like

2016
01:38:11,570 --> 01:38:09,900
energy board disease that uh we're

2017
01:38:12,590 --> 01:38:11,580
talking about at different scales and

2018
01:38:14,870 --> 01:38:12,600
stuff

2019
01:38:17,090 --> 01:38:14,880
it really comes down to like the basics

2020
01:38:18,770 --> 01:38:17,100
of reality and uh it's something you

2021
01:38:21,229 --> 01:38:18,780
wouldn't really necessarily expect going

2022
01:38:23,209 --> 01:38:21,239
into UFOs that it steps into these other

2023
01:38:25,370 --> 01:38:23,219
things like you're describing

2024
01:38:26,990 --> 01:38:25,380
yeah it um you know what you just

2025
01:38:28,610 --> 01:38:27,000
reminded me of is a lot of the

2026
01:38:31,390 --> 01:38:28,620
conversations over the summer about

2027
01:38:34,189 --> 01:38:31,400
whether or not the Lambda language model

2028
01:38:35,810 --> 01:38:34,199
indicated like machine Consciousness or

2029
01:38:39,050 --> 01:38:35,820
machine intelligence this was a natural

2030
01:38:40,270 --> 01:38:39,060
language model that could produce

2031
01:38:42,830 --> 01:38:40,280
um

2032
01:38:46,129 --> 01:38:42,840
unstructured text in response to pretty

2033
01:38:49,370 --> 01:38:46,139
nuanced and sophisticated questions

2034
01:38:52,189 --> 01:38:49,380
um for I think the average person

2035
01:38:54,169 --> 01:38:52,199
it probably seems conscious because the

2036
01:38:56,810 --> 01:38:54,179
average person I think

2037
01:38:58,970 --> 01:38:56,820
one they use the touring test as kind of

2038
01:39:02,390 --> 01:38:58,980
their litmus test of Consciousness which

2039
01:39:04,010 --> 01:39:02,400
is this is not the podcast talk about

2040
01:39:06,169 --> 01:39:04,020
why that's not right but I think that's

2041
01:39:08,030 --> 01:39:06,179
very common the other is that most

2042
01:39:10,250 --> 01:39:08,040
people

2043
01:39:12,350 --> 01:39:10,260
um who don't work and engage with these

2044
01:39:14,810 --> 01:39:12,360
kinds of language processing models have

2045
01:39:16,370 --> 01:39:14,820
any conception of exactly how

2046
01:39:18,530 --> 01:39:16,380
sophisticated and Powerful they've

2047
01:39:20,410 --> 01:39:18,540
become but the third thing is that

2048
01:39:23,570 --> 01:39:20,420
language is fundamentally computational

2049
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:23,580
so the the strength and sophistication

2050
01:39:28,970 --> 01:39:26,400
of these language models points less to

2051
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:28,980
a general language intelligence or

2052
01:39:32,570 --> 01:39:30,719
machine Consciousness than it does to

2053
01:39:36,110 --> 01:39:32,580
the computational nature of how language

2054
01:39:37,610 --> 01:39:36,120
and communication exists

2055
01:39:40,610 --> 01:39:37,620
um so basically and it put in other

2056
01:39:43,310 --> 01:39:40,620
words you can reduce communication

2057
01:39:46,189 --> 01:39:43,320
through language to a computational

2058
01:39:47,510 --> 01:39:46,199
process to equations to decision trees

2059
01:39:48,290 --> 01:39:47,520
Etc

2060
01:39:50,930 --> 01:39:48,300
um

2061
01:39:52,729 --> 01:39:50,940
and I bring this up because

2062
01:39:56,270 --> 01:39:52,739
what

2063
01:39:58,669 --> 01:39:56,280
these discussions about plasma behaviors

2064
01:40:00,950 --> 01:39:58,679
remind me of is not that they

2065
01:40:03,310 --> 01:40:00,960
necessarily indicate Consciousness as

2066
01:40:07,310 --> 01:40:03,320
much as they point to the universality

2067
01:40:11,390 --> 01:40:07,320
of self-organizing behavior and

2068
01:40:13,870 --> 01:40:11,400
self-organization in complex systems

2069
01:40:17,169 --> 01:40:13,880
these are dynamics that are exhibited

2070
01:40:19,669 --> 01:40:17,179
repeatedly and routinely virtually

2071
01:40:22,070 --> 01:40:19,679
everywhere whether it's in the formation

2072
01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:22,080
of an urban center or in the biological

2073
01:40:26,510 --> 01:40:24,480
body with different metabolic processes

2074
01:40:30,770 --> 01:40:26,520
or

2075
01:40:32,090 --> 01:40:30,780
um in electrified Plasma Research

2076
01:40:34,850 --> 01:40:32,100
phenomena

2077
01:40:37,910 --> 01:40:34,860
Etc like these sort of processes of

2078
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:37,920
self-organization which can look a whole

2079
01:40:41,450 --> 01:40:39,840
lot like Consciousness and like intent

2080
01:40:42,649 --> 01:40:41,460
like I definitely encourage anyone

2081
01:40:44,870 --> 01:40:42,659
listening

2082
01:40:47,390 --> 01:40:44,880
um to look into John Conway as the game

2083
01:40:50,590 --> 01:40:47,400
of life because this is sort of the

2084
01:40:52,669 --> 01:40:50,600
entryway to exploring this idea that

2085
01:40:55,310 --> 01:40:52,679
self-organization is algorithmic or

2086
01:40:58,490 --> 01:40:55,320
computational it's uh

2087
01:41:01,910 --> 01:40:58,500
it's a property or behavior that can be

2088
01:41:04,850 --> 01:41:01,920
measured and assessed and to some degree

2089
01:41:07,729 --> 01:41:04,860
predicted based on different factors and

2090
01:41:10,550 --> 01:41:07,739
it's something we see again sort of in

2091
01:41:12,410 --> 01:41:10,560
all different spaces both in our lived

2092
01:41:14,330 --> 01:41:12,420
experience and then also scientifically

2093
01:41:17,870 --> 01:41:14,340
and also you know in terms of

2094
01:41:20,450 --> 01:41:17,880
transmitting information and thought

2095
01:41:22,550 --> 01:41:20,460
it really speaks what you're saying

2096
01:41:25,970 --> 01:41:22,560
really speaks to how these things really

2097
01:41:29,390 --> 01:41:25,980
end up coming together and originating

2098
01:41:33,470 --> 01:41:29,400
from a a foundational worldview like a

2099
01:41:35,570 --> 01:41:33,480
cosmology your way of processing reality

2100
01:41:38,629 --> 01:41:35,580
around you and it's like for example

2101
01:41:41,330 --> 01:41:38,639
like I am like you know philosophically

2102
01:41:44,209 --> 01:41:41,340
I would say I'm a materialist I'm an

2103
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,219
atheist I wouldn't assert definitively

2104
01:41:48,530 --> 01:41:46,560
these things are true I think that's you

2105
01:41:50,330 --> 01:41:48,540
know logically incorrect to do that

2106
01:41:54,050 --> 01:41:50,340
that's just my world view

2107
01:41:56,410 --> 01:41:54,060
when I look at things like these uh

2108
01:41:59,570 --> 01:41:56,420
kinds of things like oh plasma actually

2109
01:42:02,810 --> 01:41:59,580
meets the definitional criteria of life

2110
01:42:05,209 --> 01:42:02,820
um I see that a lot of people that leads

2111
01:42:07,609 --> 01:42:05,219
them to say um well therefore like it

2112
01:42:09,890 --> 01:42:07,619
seems like maybe these plasma forms are

2113
01:42:11,689 --> 01:42:09,900
alive and I find it's interesting

2114
01:42:13,669 --> 01:42:11,699
because me subjectively I go the

2115
01:42:16,070 --> 01:42:13,679
opposite direction uh naturally

2116
01:42:18,350 --> 01:42:16,080
instinctively I say to myself well

2117
01:42:20,270 --> 01:42:18,360
that's interesting if life can just be

2118
01:42:23,149 --> 01:42:20,280
this sort of like sequence of things

2119
01:42:26,330 --> 01:42:23,159
that is uh you know quantifiable

2120
01:42:28,250 --> 01:42:26,340
like what is life life perhaps life is

2121
01:42:30,050 --> 01:42:28,260
just I mean and I suspect it's the case

2122
01:42:32,270 --> 01:42:30,060
but life appears to be purely

2123
01:42:35,750 --> 01:42:32,280
mechanistic a series of natural

2124
01:42:38,209 --> 01:42:35,760
processes that whether uh entirely

2125
01:42:41,209 --> 01:42:38,219
determined uh as historically thought in

2126
01:42:43,310 --> 01:42:41,219
physics or subject to Randomness as we

2127
01:42:45,290 --> 01:42:43,320
now believe through Quantum uh physics

2128
01:42:49,250 --> 01:42:45,300
uh none of that has to do with anything

2129
01:42:51,530 --> 01:42:49,260
with uh Free Will in quotes uh so so you

2130
01:42:54,109 --> 01:42:51,540
know so it like uh for me when I hear

2131
01:42:55,910 --> 01:42:54,119
something like that I go one route which

2132
01:42:58,310 --> 01:42:55,920
is like kind of like everything's just

2133
01:42:59,689 --> 01:42:58,320
mechanistic everything's just natural uh

2134
01:43:02,649 --> 01:42:59,699
and that gives me a sense of Peace

2135
01:43:05,870 --> 01:43:02,659
fundamentally in one way uh that like

2136
01:43:07,609 --> 01:43:05,880
there isn't this uh all-powerful entity

2137
01:43:09,290 --> 01:43:07,619
sort of like waiting to judge me or

2138
01:43:10,850 --> 01:43:09,300
whatever there's a relief to that in my

2139
01:43:13,430 --> 01:43:10,860
mind and I understand the other way too

2140
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:13,440
but um I I think that

2141
01:43:19,550 --> 01:43:17,280
the heart of the cosmology worldview of

2142
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:19,560
the people perceiving these phenomena it

2143
01:43:23,629 --> 01:43:22,080
is so centrally important and I'm very

2144
01:43:25,810 --> 01:43:23,639
happy that we're sort of getting at this

2145
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:25,820
in these conversations

2146
01:43:32,450 --> 01:43:29,280
yeah I'm totally with you

2147
01:43:38,030 --> 01:43:32,460
um well we are also now officially over

2148
01:43:39,950 --> 01:43:38,040
time so it's I think uh I think we'll

2149
01:43:41,330 --> 01:43:39,960
wrap things up

2150
01:43:43,669 --> 01:43:41,340
um before we do

2151
01:43:45,470 --> 01:43:43,679
Louis Campbell what's going on with you

2152
01:43:46,910 --> 01:43:45,480
guys

2153
01:43:48,030 --> 01:43:46,920
well people can head over to

2154
01:43:51,890 --> 01:43:48,040
uapstudy.com

2155
01:43:55,850 --> 01:43:53,570
Louis how are you

2156
01:43:57,590 --> 01:43:55,860
I'm actually reading a book called

2157
01:44:00,350 --> 01:43:57,600
secret rituals of the Men in Black by

2158
01:44:03,770 --> 01:44:00,360
Ellen Greenfield

2159
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:03,780
um I think it's basically just

2160
01:44:08,510 --> 01:44:06,000
well I can I can talk more about it in a

2161
01:44:09,830 --> 01:44:08,520
future episode but uh this is like one

2162
01:44:12,770 --> 01:44:09,840
of those kind of playing with numbers

2163
01:44:14,390 --> 01:44:12,780
type of things like the Bible Code I

2164
01:44:16,729 --> 01:44:14,400
don't know if you're familiar with that

2165
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:16,739
Saga

2166
01:44:20,990 --> 01:44:19,679
um I think that's what's going on here

2167
01:44:24,290 --> 01:44:21,000
but um

2168
01:44:26,450 --> 01:44:24,300
I've seen a video you know interview of

2169
01:44:29,090 --> 01:44:26,460
Greenfield he seems very

2170
01:44:30,770 --> 01:44:29,100
very sincere but um you know that's no

2171
01:44:34,850 --> 01:44:30,780
check on

2172
01:44:40,910 --> 01:44:38,510
yes sincerity but anyway it's a fun book

2173
01:44:44,930 --> 01:44:40,920
fantastic

2174
01:44:46,850 --> 01:44:44,940
I'm glad to hear it um so yeah uh we

2175
01:44:50,209 --> 01:44:46,860
will be returning to our normal time

2176
01:44:52,790 --> 01:44:50,219
next Wednesday uh November 16th 9 pm

2177
01:44:55,129 --> 01:44:52,800
Eastern 6 p.m Pacific we'll be welcoming

2178
01:44:57,410 --> 01:44:55,139
rather rather be squidding onto this

2179
01:44:58,729 --> 01:44:57,420
show for discussion I'm not totally sure

2180
01:45:00,350 --> 01:44:58,739
what we'll talk about

2181
01:45:02,629 --> 01:45:00,360
um hopefully something involving

2182
01:45:05,270 --> 01:45:02,639
non-human intelligence since that seems

2183
01:45:08,209 --> 01:45:05,280
to be what he's interested in right now

2184
01:45:10,970 --> 01:45:08,219
um and it's one of my favorite subjects

2185
01:45:12,350 --> 01:45:10,980
um that'd be great people can awesome

2186
01:45:14,510 --> 01:45:12,360
um so people can check out we have a

2187
01:45:16,910 --> 01:45:14,520
link to our Discord in the show

2188
01:45:18,950 --> 01:45:16,920
description I also find links to our

2189
01:45:21,050 --> 01:45:18,960
various and Sundry Twitter accounts and

2190
01:45:22,669 --> 01:45:21,060
blogs make sure to like share and

2191
01:45:25,370 --> 01:45:22,679
subscribe on the channel as we help

2192
01:45:26,990 --> 01:45:25,380
build our audience and uh finally if

2193
01:45:28,370 --> 01:45:27,000
there's any subjects or guests that any

2194
01:45:30,950 --> 01:45:28,380
of the audience are interested in us

2195
01:45:34,010 --> 01:45:30,960
meeting with talking about or exploring

2196
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:34,020
together feel free to either leave a

2197
01:45:39,590 --> 01:45:37,199
comment or shoot me a message on Twitter